New Mühle stainless steel razor 'Rocca'

It seems that it is back in stock @ Connaught and Giftsandcare, but not on their official website. Also read a thread somewhere in which this rumor was infirmed by someone who actually had asked Muhle directly - they said no, it is no true.
 
To come back to my previous posts, I had my first shaves with my new Karve SS and I don’t know what to think yet. I tend to compare with my Rocca but for the moment the Karve is not that efficient or smooth for me. I read about other similar experiences of people who sold their Karve and kept the Rocca. I can’t deny the level of detail and craftmanship that has been put in the Karve but for me it seems that it’s not the Holy Grail, at least yet.
 

Fozzie Bear

Forum Clod!
I tried the Brass SB plates D and E and decided it wasn’t for me. Beautifully made razor but I went back to my Rocca.
 

Rowlers

Massive Member
Staff member
To come back to my previous posts, I had my first shaves with my new Karve SS and I don’t know what to think yet. I tend to compare with my Rocca but for the moment the Karve is not that efficient or smooth for me. I read about other similar experiences of people who sold their Karve and kept the Rocca. I can’t deny the level of detail and craftmanship that has been put in the Karve but for me it seems that it’s not the Holy Grail, at least yet.
I found the Karve to be nothing spectacular. D plate I found a little rough and no more efficient than lower plates.
 
Sorry if I bother you with my posts regarding Karve Vs Rocca but I really don’t get along with it.
Firstly, I think it’s unbalanced, in my opinion the handle is too heavy for the head.
I have tried around 10 blades, GSB being the smoothest of all in Karve D, both SB and OC.
The D OC is a 100% blade feel on my face, very efficient but very very rough. I can’t explain how or why but my face burns after a 2 pass shave, where after 3 pass with Rocca there is absolutely nothing. Indeed D-OC is a little bit more efficient (that’s why only 2 passes) than Rocca but in my case the cost is not worth it.
The D-SB is more acceptable in terms of efficiency vs. comfort but still harsh, especially ATG ( I go ATG only on a small portion of my neck, for the rest of my face XTG is enough).
Could be the blade angle?
The Rocca head is more curved and maybe that is why is working well on my face.
 

SeanC

Forum GOD!
To come back to my previous posts, I had my first shaves with my new Karve SS and I don’t know what to think yet. I tend to compare with my Rocca but for the moment the Karve is not that efficient or smooth for me. I read about other similar experiences of people who sold their Karve and kept the Rocca. I can’t deny the level of detail and craftmanship that has been put in the Karve but for me it seems that it’s not the Holy Grail, at least yet.
Classic YMMV situation. I did precisely the reverse; moved on the Rocca and kept Karve C & D SB plates as the latter to me is equally as efficient and much smoother
 

Sausage

Forum GOD!
Sorry if I bother you with my posts regarding Karve Vs Rocca but I really don’t get along with it.
Firstly, I think it’s unbalanced, in my opinion the handle is too heavy for the head.
I have tried around 10 blades, GSB being the smoothest of all in Karve D, both SB and OC.
The D OC is a 100% blade feel on my face, very efficient but very very rough. I can’t explain how or why but my face burns after a 2 pass shave, where after 3 pass with Rocca there is absolutely nothing. Indeed D-OC is a little bit more efficient (that’s why only 2 passes) than Rocca but in my case the cost is not worth it.
The D-SB is more acceptable in terms of efficiency vs. comfort but still harsh, especially ATG ( I go ATG only on a small portion of my neck, for the rest of my face XTG is enough).
Could be the blade angle?
The Rocca head is more curved and maybe that is why is working well on my face.
Do you have other open combs? I have found that open combs are tricky razors. I like standard bars much better.
 

Missoni

Fellow Traveller
Having clocked-up many shaves now with the Rocca and having had a replacement head direct from Muhle because of poor manufacturing tolerances, my views of the razor have cooled somewhat. There is much to like about the Rocca - the ergonomics, the aesthetics, the slightly larger than average handle girth, the weight, the balance, the razors voice and it can deliver great shaves. So why the cooling?' well some minor niggles have become amplified with familiarity over a longer period of time. The corners of the top cap are arrow sharp and on occasion I feel them when loading a blade and sometimes head shaving. Why these were not rounded off like just about every other razor I have no idea. The quality issues Muhle has had with the razor have not diminished with the V3 head - my handle does not torque down without very slightly rubbing on the recess in the base plate. The matt or shot-blasted finish does not glide as effortlessly on the skin like chrome or polished stainless steel. And for some reason the exposed blade tabs can catch me out. I normally prefer exposed blade tabs but not on this razor and the head profile is larger than it needs to be. I am left with the feeling that the razor was very much built to a price rather than designing a great shaver and then pricing accordingly. I am a big fan of the R89 and R41 but sadly, I think Muhle missed the bulls eye with the Rocca; Razorock with the Gamechanger showed the standard that can be achieved for less than $100 - Muhle needs to up it's game in the medium efficient razor market that and probably issue an apology to all those customers who purchased a Rocca that shaved roughly because of poor manufacturing tolerances and quality control, and probably just put it at the bottom of a cupboard. Despite good customer service that does not negate the fact that too many customers received a piss poor razor.
 
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Missoni

Fellow Traveller
I am not sure if the Rocca head has been changed again (V4?) with the latest release of the "all stainless steel Rocca" but I did notice that the
MIM tell tale circles on the underside of the top cap have disappeared again, with the latest iteration...from the press blurb:

"...Classic Muhle design Rocca is appearing in its fourth edition. Familiar and yet always new, and reliable...After birch bark handles and jet black DLC coating, now comes the all stainless steel version"

Edit: Muhle confirmed Rocca Base Plate and Top Cap are now CNC machined...
 
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Missoni

Fellow Traveller
All stainless steel version? Does this refer to already existing black handle version?
I wrote to Muhle direct. My understanding is, all Rocca heads now have a CNC machined 316L stainless steel top cap and CNC machined 316L stainless steel base plate. The top section of Rocca handles (birch bark, jet black and DLC coated versions) are also CNC machined 316L stainless steel, press fitted onto a brass middle section. This may be different for the "all stainless steel" handled version of the Rocca, announced Nov'19.

Updating previous posts and observations by @Dr Watson; the difference between each version of the Rocca head, appears to be as follows:

V1 = MIM (Metal Injection Molding) top cap and base plate.

V2 = MIM top cap and MIM base plate (MIM circular flow marks polished off the underside of the top cap) blade posts and centre post are glued / welded onto the top cap rather than a complete MIM mold, as V1.

V3 = MIM top cap (complete mold with visible MIM circular flow marks on underside of top cap; no glued / welded centre post or blade posts) with CNC machined 316L stainless steel base plate. Base plate re-designed - now with narrow centre channel.

V4 = CNC machined 316L stainless steel top cap and CNC machined 316L stainless steel base plate. (I am assuming "CNC machined top cap" includes the centre post and blade posts in the machining; but I do wonder if my assumption is correct after the surprise at how V2 heads were manufactured).

I now have a V4 head, but the V4 top cap looks identical to a V2 top cap. I am not sure how you would differentiate between a V2 and V4 Rocca top cap; perhaps someone who works with metals would immediately know. In any event the manufacturing tolerances on my latest V4 Rocca are visibly tighter than my V3 Rocca.

I might now wait for V5 of the Rocca...
 
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