New Mühle stainless steel razor 'Rocca'

[owlman]

V2 = MIM top cap and MIM base plate (MIM circle marks polished off the underside of the top cap) blade posts and centre post are glued / welded/? onto the top cap rather than a complete MIM mould, as V1.

V3 = MIM top cap (complete mould with visible circle marks on underside of top cap; no glued / welded centre post or blade posts) with CNC machined 316L stainless steel base plate.

I don't recall reports about the V2 centre post being glued/welded as well, only the blade posts, did I miss something there?

Also, the V3 (and presumably V4?) base plate is different from the V1 and V2; it has only a narrow slot in the middle for the blade posts, where the V1 and V2 base plates have a much larger cavity. (Presumably to save on material on the earlier versions and to save on machining time on the newer.)

EDIT to answer my own question: I have since read the report of someone on a German forum whose centre post had broken off, and Muhle themselves told him the spot welding had failed.

 

[Missoni]

I don't recall reports about the V2 centre post being glued/welded as well, only the blade posts, did I miss something there?

Also, the V3 (and presumably V4?) base plate is different from the V1 and V2; it has only a narrow slot in the middle for the blade posts, where the V1 and V2 base plates have a much larger cavity. (Presumably to save on material on the earlier versions and to save on machining time on the newer.)

EDIT to answer my own question: I have since read the report of someone on a German forum whose centre post had broken off, and Muhle themselves told him the spot welding had failed.

Yes you are correct that the Rocca's base plate on V3 & V4 also differs in design to the V1 & V2 with a narrower centre channel; I will edit accordingly.

 

[Missoni]

Rocca - The greatest German cock up since operation Barbarossa

On a more serious note, I am pleased to see the head is now entirely CNC machined. This is from the Muehle quarterly "30 Grad" which dropped onto my doormat a few days ago...

http://imgur.com/a/ex1pLwN

View: https://imgur.com/a/ex1pLwN

I noticed that Muhle asserted in "Grad 30" how overall turnover is at it's highest and they had to purchase a new warehouse to cope with demand; I suspect the Rocca fiasco did not impact their bottom too much then...

 

[Dr Watson]

I noticed that Muhle asserted in "Grad 30" how overall turnover is at it's highest and they had to purchase a new warehouse to cope with demand; I suspect the Rocca fiasco did not impact their bottom too much then...

Is that so? I haven't read the magazine yet. I'm honestly surprised... To my knowledge the market for expensive synthetic brushes is mostly dead, the market for entry level die-cast zinc razors is ever diminishing and competition from China has never been greater but if Muehle are at an all time high then good for them.

 

[Steve Bowles]

The Muhle website doesn't show the V4 as is shown in the above photograph. I'd like to know more about it.

 

[morr]

Is that so? I haven't read the magazine yet. I'm honestly surprised... To my knowledge the market for expensive synthetic brushes is mostly dead, the market for entry level die-cast zinc razors is ever diminishing and competition from China has never been greater but if Muehle are at an all time high then good for them.

I think you're overestimating interest and purchasing power of shaving forum hobbyists and underestimating physical stores and Amazon crowd.

I visited Brussels recently and to my surprise, a small downtown shop is selling dozens of black badger Plissons per week. Those are priced between 70-130€ but I don't think you could give one away on the BST.

 

[Dr Watson]

I think you're overestimating interest and purchasing power of shaving forum hobbyists and underestimating physical stores and Amazon crowd.

I visited Brussels recently and to my surprise, a small downtown shop is selling dozens of black badger Plissons per week. Those are priced between 70-130€ but I don't think you could give one away on the BST.

Damn good point. We exist in a bubble that has very little in common with the wider public and their purchasing preferences, I forgot

I can't fault the wisdom of the crowd when it comes to those Plisson brushes, I love their pure badger grade and consider them some of the best badgers available. I feel we've lost our way with shaving brushes, the whole short lofted super dense gel tipped thing is so tiresome... But that's for another thread

 

[Progress_user]

I wrote to Muhle direct. My understanding is, all Rocca heads now have a CNC machined 316L stainless steel top cap and CNC machined 316L stainless steel base plate. The top section of Rocca handles (birch bark, jet black and DLC coated versions) are also CNC machined 316L stainless steel, press fitted onto a brass middle section. This may be different for the "all stainless steel" handled version of the Rocca, announced Nov'19.

Updating previous posts and observations by @Dr Watson; the difference between each version of the Rocca head, appears to be as follows:

V1 = MIM (Metal Injection Molding) top cap and base plate.

V2 = MIM top cap and MIM base plate (MIM circular flow marks polished off the underside of the top cap) blade posts and centre post are glued / welded onto the top cap rather than a complete MIM mold, as V1.

V3 = MIM top cap (complete mold with visible MIM circular flow marks on underside of top cap; no glued / welded centre post or blade posts) with CNC machined 316L stainless steel base plate. Base plate re-designed - now with narrow centre channel.

V4 = CNC machined 316L stainless steel top cap and CNC machined 316L stainless steel base plate. (I am assuming "CNC machined top cap" includes the centre post and blade posts in the machining; but I do wonder if my assumption is correct after the surprise at how V2 heads were manufactured).

I now have a V4 head, but the V4 top cap looks identical to a V2 top cap. I am not sure how you would differentiate between a V2 and V4 Rocca top cap; perhaps someone who works with metals would immediately know. In any event the manufacturing tolerances on my latest V4 Rocca are visibly tighter than my V3 Rocca.

I might now wait for V5 of the Rocca...

Can we see some pics please? And what abiut the shave?

 

[Progress_user]

In the meantime, I come back with a feedback for those who are still interested in a comparison between the Rocca and Karve D plate (SB and OC).
I read the previous posts and I kind of disagree, I do think that Muhle Rocca is a great razor for the price/quality.
I don’t find that the exposed tabs are a huge minus, neither the top cap corners which I really don’t feel at all. Not the case for Karve where the exposed tabs are quite obvious (and dangereous sometimes, depending on your technique).
So, my lessons learned:
- I can’t get a clean shave with D SB, while with Rocca I get DFS everytime and no irritation ( in the begining of our relation I was a little bit reluctant and found it agressive but in the end it turned out that in fact I was confused by its efficiency).
- I can’t go ATG with D SB, it is absolutely horrible in my case. My hair grows close to my skin and ATG it’s painful especially on my neck. No problem with the Rocca, thanks to its blade exposure it goes right under the hair and cuts very clean without tugging at all.
- I find the D OC very efficient, a little bit more than the Rocca. With the right blade it is wonderful, I had a big surprise with Personna Lab Blue and Gillete Platinums.
But I still have to be really careful when going ATG. At least 1 pass I can do. And I don’t think it’s a daily shaver.

Price and quality wise, I would definetely go for the Rocca again, probably for V4, soon.

Karve SS is a great piece of manufacture but in my case, due to the wider base plate and not the appropriate gap, I can’t find the right angle. I read this also on other forum, someone used to an R41 couldn’t find the right angle with Karve SB. In my case it was just something expensive and not really a huge pleasure to use. Now I’m seriously thinking to get some part of my money back.

 

[Missoni]

Can we see some pics please? And what abiut the shave?

This is a V4 stainless (CNC machined top cap and base plate), picture from Muhle's website. The Spanish forum is talking about an upcoming release of a rose gold and pearl/shell handled version also. I have only had a few shaves with the v4 so still early dats. It is efficient though, as were sorted V3, V2 and V1's. No visible light between the base plate and top cap on the V4, at least on mine, so tolerances much improved over the MIM versions.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Very nice!.I have a V2 and V3 Rocca and love both, no problems with either. This V4 also looks good and the fact that its now CNC machined hopefully means they have finally solved the Q/A issues that seem to have plagued previous versions and taken the shine off what can be a very good efficient razor.

 

[Steve Bowles]

Has anyone tried this razor yet? Is the shave any milder than the V3?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Has anyone tried this razor yet? Is the shave any milder than the V3?

Hi Steve, it seems @Missoni above has tried it and while early days he comments it is still an efficient shave. This tallies with Muhle previous releases of the Rocca, they tweak this and that but don’t change the actual dynamics of the shave.

 

[Missoni]

Has anyone tried this razor yet? Is the shave any milder than the V3?

Yes as above. I have the V3 and the new V4 (Birch Bark) with the CNC machined top cap and base plate. Main difference is the tolerances are now spot on; previously it was a lottery how tight the tolerances were.

 

[Steve Bowles]

I liked the birch-handle version (V3), but like a lot of others found it a bit rough.