Phoenix and Beau (The Ammonia Scent Issue)

Wayne

Wayne

Forum Sod
matteob said:
Can't say I have had any bad smells from my Albion but kudos to Kerry for dealing with this. Not referring to Kerry, Sharon, Fox or OSP here but any old Tom Dick or Harry can set up a website snd sell an "artisan" soap when they are far from expert. Does one have to submit the product to external testing before one can market it? I just put this out there because I am a lawyer and wondering about covering one's back regarding suits (god forbid) if something causes a nasty reaction with someone.

Just want to say again I have no issues with the Phoenix and Beau formulation and will certainly be buying more. Just curious about the switch to cardboard packaging though because actually I like the pot being someone who applies the soap to the brush from the pot then builds in a scuttle.
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As far as I'm aware all Kerry's products and the others you mentioned have to submit their soaps for testing to ensure they meet European standards.
 
phoenixandbeau

phoenixandbeau

Forum GOD!
Morning everyone,

These are some great questions and I'll centralise my answer on my websites FAQ page, so thanks for asking. I'll have a look at each one point by point.

matteob said:
Can't say I have had any bad smells from my Albion but kudos to Kerry for dealing with this. Not referring to Kerry, Sharon, Fox or OSP here but any old Tom Dick or Harry can set up a website and sell an "artisan" soap when they are far from expert. Does one have to submit the product to external testing before one can market it? I just put this out there because I am a lawyer and wondering about covering one's back regarding suits (god forbid) if something causes a nasty reaction with someone.

Just want to say again I have no issues with the Phoenix and Beau formulation and will certainly be buying more. Just curious about the switch to cardboard packaging though because actually I like the pot being someone who applies the soap to the brush from the pot then builds in a scuttle.
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Firstly I'm very glad to hear that, as with approximately 99% of our soaps, your Albion is as it should be. We adhere to and comply with EU Cosmetics Regulations 1223/2009 and by that I mean we do the following:

1) We complete a detailed product information file for each of our products. Each file includes the product description, the Cosmetic Product Safety Report and details our method of manufacture in accordance with good manufacturing practice (GMP). Our GMP demonstrates that we comply with industry standard ISO 22716 and addresses areas such as; premises and equipment, personnel, production processes and procedures, documents / records, storage, quality control and complaints.

2) We employ a qualified cosmetic safety assessor to complete a cosmetic product safety report for each product. These reports scrutinise the following areas and ensure they're safe to use:
  • the general toxicological profile of each ingredient used;
  • the chemical structure of each ingredient;
  • the level of exposure of each ingredient;
  • the specific exposure characteristics of the areas on which the cosmetic product will be applied; and
  • the specific exposure characteristics of the class of individuals for whom the cosmetic product is intended.
3) We notify the Cosmetic Product Notification Portal of each of our products which are then made (by them) electronically available to the Competent Authorities (for the purposes of market surveillance, market analysis, evaluation and consumer information) and to the Poison Centres or similar bodies established by Member States (for the purposes of medical treatment).

4) We label our products as follows:
  • List of ingredients: listed on any outer packaging or, if no outer packaging, on the main container. There must be the title “Ingredients” followed by all the ingredients contained in the product, in descending order of concentration. The ingredients have to follow a standard with regard to terminology so there is consistency between different brands, and this is set in the International Nomenclature for Cosmetics (INCI). This means that wherever you buy a product, the ingredients list is using the same terms, keeping the ingredients used easier to identify. The ingredients have to follow a standard with regard to terminology so there is consistency between different brands, and this is set in the International Nomenclature for Cosmetics (INCI). This means that wherever you buy the product, the ingredients list is using the same terms, keeping the ingredients used easier to identify
  • Name and address of manufacturer or supplier
  • Date of minimum durability (“best before date”) or a “Period After Opening” (PAO)
  • Warning statements and precautionary advice
  • Batch number or lot code
  • Product function (when appropriate if use is not obvious)
  • The amount of contents (weight or volume)
Hope this helps :thumbsup:.

lloydrm said:
I wanted to get a few unscented as I love it, but its been sold out since Friday :S
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We have more curing and I'll update our website as soon as I've spoken with Sarah regarding their availability :okay::).

Wayne said:
As far as I'm aware all Kerry's products and the others you mentioned have to submit their soaps for testing to ensure they meet European standards.
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Please see my response to @matteob.

DamianJ said:
I thought all soap makers in the EU had to get their products tested too. I'm certain I've heard Kerry, Darron etc say they were sending products off for testing.
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As above.

Nishy said:
Compliance to EU regulations is a must, including thorough inspection by a toxologist. As far as I know.
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As above.
 
Burry

Burry

Forum GOD!
Interesting to read about all the hoops you need to jump through to put a soap out there.
My full tub of Albion was great - as were my samples of Sanskrit and Citra royale - but I think the first tub I bought, Solaris is my preferred scent.
 
matteob

matteob

Well-Known Member
Sounds excellent Kerry I'll be back for more.If only those rules applied to a certain US soap maker who has been called out for being deceitful over his ingredients list. Looking forward to the balm too.
 
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Kevy

Kevy

Forum GOD!
It's a shame people have had issues with some of the P&B soaps. I was one of the original testers on TSR and was blown away with the formula of the unscented tallow tester sample. I had the same ammonia smell issue with my tub of Spitfire but I left it with the lid off in a drawer for 3 weeks and it solved the problem. Now, you shouldn't have to do this, but it does offer a solution to the problem. I take my hat off to Kerry for addressing and explaining and answering everyone's questions here. It's good to see he's listening to his customers and trying to make his soaps better for us all.
 
matteob

matteob

Well-Known Member
Yea it shows how committed Kerry is that he has responded at some length. I had issues with another soap maker over one of his soaps causing a burning sensation and the guy did not really want to know. It was not just me either as the guy i traded the soap with is having the same issue. Kudos to Kerry for listening to his customers and taking steps to improve the formula. I see on twitter that he is going to be supplying Chicago's poshest barber so he must be doing something right.

Just glad the next seasonal is not going to be called "Tomcat's Spray" lol (only jokin only jokin as Spike Milligan would say)

No seriously kudos to you. Your soap has the best lather and glide properties of all the soaps I own and Albion really wakes me up of a morning :)
 
Lord Fatboy

Lord Fatboy

Forgo Mud !
Sudden drops in temp or an shortened period of drying / curing, (especially while anything organic & bulky is still hot in it's core and cooling fast on the outside), can cause this "ammonia" type effect. It's probably to do with the amino acids.

Edit:
Ah - I see that's been said already.
 
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Nick_S

Nick_S

Forum GOD!
As a completely satisfied prior, current and future customer of Kerry's, I applaud the transparency and manner in which these little niggly problems are being dealt with :)

Here's to yet more wonderful P&B soap! I shall ensure I retain my original pots to put the smaller refills into :)
 
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