***WARNING: LONG READ! ***
As promised, here's my full response and I should begin with that I have been feverishly working towards ironing out this infuriating kink and composing a response that addresses the questions raised.
Let me preface this thread by stating that I simply love P&B soaps. It is quite simply the slickest soap I've ever used, is easy to lather, top of the line post shave qualities, above average cushion, and lovely scents. I've previously had and still use Sanskrit, Citra Royale, Solaris, and Denali.
Firstly,
@Len thanks for sticking with us and also sharing your lovely praise about our soap. Your comments about the Star Noir design, story about Bowie moving you further forwards (
wonderful story) and feeling that he'd of approved of the SN label was
warming to read.
Opening up the various tubs to check each scent, 1 of the Star Noir tubs contained a strong ammonia (cat piss) scent. The Albion and 2nd Star Noir smelled lovely, and as they should. It is hard for me to imagine why this issue persists. I've personally not encountered this problem before with
@phoenixandbeau , in any soap iteration, and was even skeptical of some of the reports of same. But I can definitively say with 1st hand personal experience that this is a problem. From my understanding, Kerry claimed to have solved this problem back in July
Right then, some clarity on the "ammonia scent issue".
First off,
sorry you have found this to be the case with one of your soaps.
On 31st July I went to my soap making peers at the Soap Making Forum and sought advice on ammonia being detected in a tiny number of my soaps (
you can see the full discussion here - http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=60694). You'll see that those with far greater soap making experience than me suggested various reasons, guesses or assessments as to the cause that ranged between:
- "I'd say the allantoin is responsible"
- "Give the soap more surface area whilst curing"
- "Cure for longer"
- "Cure for 3-6 months"
- "Degradation of the proteins and amino acids in the silk, coconut milk or allantoin".
To say that there are many "moving parts" to making my soap and the various factors that represent each step between its creation to it being used by my customers would be a massive understatement. It is an extremely involved process and there are numerous areas to understand when trying to pinpoint the
exact reason (
or reasons) for any negative issue.
Here are just a few:
- Temperature of lye water at point of inclusion with oils
- Temperature of oils at point of inclusion with lye
- When to add the coconut milk and avoiding scorching
- Ensuring the proteins present in tussah silk, coconut milk are correctly broken down
- Temperature to add essential oils / fragrance
- Reaction between fragrance and the base formula, i.e. do some react less well to being placed in hot processed soap?
- Quantity of essential oils / fragrance per batch and impact upon soap consistency, i.e. when compared to 'Spitfire', 'Albion' has almost four times the amount of essential oil, thanks to the vast quantity of grapefruit we have to use. Consequently it is a much softer soap.
- Cure period
- Weather, humidity and transit, i.e. a hot and humid (or cold and dry) part of the world, prolonged duration in a hot postal van / mailbox, etc
- How the soap is used, i.e. one customer identified how they liked to float their open jar in hot water whilst also blooming its surface
- How the soap is cared for and stored
- If the soap is a buy / sell / trade (BST) or pass it forward (PIF), how was it treated by the previous owner. Points 9 - 11 apply again.
The issue you identify as persisting is something I feel I now have a solution to. I have discussed the matter with many folk and have read many comments regarding me and my products (
some ever so helpful and informative [thank you so much to all] but equally some very unkind and inaccurate [thank you also, you only galvanise me to work much harder 
]).
Using this collective experience and wisdom I have come to the following conclusion as to the most probable cause of the issue and that is this;
-
Four weeks is too insufficient a time to allow my formula to consistently cure across all scents and is, however small in number, compounded by the decanted soaps inability to properly breath once it is placed in its plastic jar.
ACTION AND SOLUTION!
- As of December 2016 we will be curing our soap for 10 weeks. My research suggests that this surpasses the vast majority, if not all other artisans, but for Savonnerie Martin de Candre.
- As of January 2017 our core range soaps will only be available in 60g units that will come packed in high quality, water resistant cardboard boxes (think Saponificioi Varesino, but with far better design
). They will be inserted into a protective and breathable lining paper prior to being slotted in to each box.
- Our seasonal and LE soaps will, unless specified, remain as 4oz units and will enjoy the new 10-week curing period and will be decanted in to a new type of jar. Our provider for our current plastic jars has stopped supplying and so we are considering a range of higher quality options, e.g. glass, thicker PET jars, etc.
But that wasn't all he wrote and I encourage you to read on in order to better understand where we are, how we got here and what we're doing.
SOME CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE:
Some of you will recall that Phoenix and Beau came about via my sharing of my own private soap formula with members of UK forum 'The Shaving Room' back in October (
my vegan formula) and December 2015, for my (
what you have now) tallow based formula.
Prior to deciding to take my tallow soap to market and its subsequent launch on 29th February 2016 my experience of making soap was solely derived from being a massively enthusiastic hobbyist. Like many of the other artisan soap makers out there, including the more famous North American ones, I am a self-taught soap maker.
This is relevant because the mistakes I have made came about due to a then lack of experience in the relevant area. For example, prior to launch I only ever made my soap for myself and in tiny quantities of no greater than half pound batches. I never decanted my own soap in to the plastic tubs we currently use and instead formed the cooked soap in to circular loafs, cut them in to small 10g discs and used them as required by pressing them in to my shaving bowl.
Hindsight tells me that curing was never an issue for such a tiny quantity of soap that, whilst waiting to be used, was stored neatly lined up and exposed to the air in my shave den. It never suffered the rigours of being sent to hot climates, was never exposed to high summer temperatures, never sat in a hot letter box / or back of postal van and was never decanted in to a plastic jar.
Equally it was never under-cured, as was evidently the case in my very early batches nor was it underweight.
Please remember, I am a wet shaving enthusiast who, like the very excellent North American brands, e.g. Barrister & Mann, has learnt his trade from the humble beginnings of being a hobbyist. I am (
very ably) assisted by my wife in the making of our soap, but that's it.
There is no one else involved.
PB is not my full time occupation and I am comprehensively and gainfully employed in a demanding role elsewhere. I also have two daughters aged 5 and 2, and so you might say that PB represents a third child and do you know what, I wouldn't disagree with you
.
Like I said back in October of 2015, I enjoy a challenge!
.
But I digress.. back to the point. From my hobbyist beginnings, concepts such as commercial cure periods, factoring in of dehydration (
soap weight loss) during cure period, breathability of chosen vessel and the various factors (1 - 12, above) are all areas I have since learned and made adjustments for.
Since launch we have sold almost 3000 soaps and the ammonia issue
@Len (and others) have described amounts to almost 1% of all soaps made since launch. This takes in to consideration the different adjustments I have made along the way to my methodology and curing period.
Now before some of you curse and spit out your coffee (!) on the basis that you feel that number is higher, of course I accept that this 1%
probably is higher but I can only provide data from what I have seen or read directly from customers who have reached out to me. A frustrating part of my job, for sure, but I accept that some folk won't want to contact the artisan and much prefer to be vociferous in the criticism of a product. That's just how some folk roll and is something beyond my control.
What I will say however is that the vast majority of customers who have alerted me to or directly contacted me regarding the 1% have been tremendously encouraging, supportive and generally very helpful.
Case in point being this question posed by
@Len (
thanks again, Len 
).
Now, I'll have to see if I can get this resolved with Kerry
Of course, please drop me an email with your order details and I'll get this sorted out for you
.
AND FINALLY..
If you've got this far, thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this. I hope that what is evident in the above is my desire to keep improving, my appetite for learning and total commitment to providing an amazing (and issue free) soap. Have another look at our products and see what other customers have said or are saying about them:
Please feel free to ask any questions or offer any suggestions you might have and in the interim please continue to enjoy our soap in the comfort that if you're anything less than 100% satisfied with it I'll either provide you with a full refund or a replacement soap so long as the following conditions have been met:
What is your returns policy?
Our policy lasts 30 days. If 30 days have gone by since your purchase, unfortunately we can’t offer you a refund or exchange. To be eligible for a return, your item must be unused. It must also be in the original packaging. You are also responsible for the cost of postage back to us. We do not accept returns for Phoenix and Beau soaps you have received as part of a trade.
A
HUGE thank you to all of our customers and stockists support; I've said it before but every single one of you represents the life blood of our company. Without you there is no Phoenix and Beau, and so you have our warmest and sincerest thanks.
With kindest regards,
Kerry.
Owner - Phoenix and Beau Ltd.
