Climate Change......

[Wayne]

I will say this. This thread isn't about climate change. This thread is about peoples beliefs and opinions. They are strong beliefs and opinions, on both sides but ultimately that is all they are.
For every scientist or politician that says one thing, there is another that says the opposite. You pay your money and you take your side. In the internet age more information is available than ever before but that information is also more open to abuse than ever before. It isn't always for good either.
Some people Kill for political reasons, some for Religious reasons and they think they are justified to do so because somebody told them they were right and they believed it.
Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are wrong, they just have their own beliefs. Debate and discussion is at an all time low and isn't going to get better whilst people with their own motives at heart pull the strings of others in order for them to do their dirty work for them.

 

[les24preludes]

Well Wayne, in a way you're right and in a way you're wrong - as I see it.

The whole point about science, and what makes it so valuable to human development is that it ISN'T about beliefs and opinions. It's very rigorously about repeatable and evidential research and the practical results of that. Science evolves - that's its nature. And there are contending theories and practices right through the history of science. But the rigour of proving something endures and is central.

So you can have opinions "about" science. But science and opinions are absolutely not the same thing. Yes?

Climate change is science. You can have opinions "about" it, but the science itself is what proves what is and isn't happening.

 

[TobyC]

I’d like to see a higher tax on gasoline (here in the US) and less tax incentives to big oil companies.

Why?

You do realize that would raise the price of all consumer goods right? Businesses pass the cost down, they don't eat it.

 

[Wayne]

Well Wayne, in a way you're right and in a way you're wrong - as I see it.

The whole point about science, and what makes it so valuable to human development is that it ISN'T about beliefs and opinions. It's very rigorously about repeatable and evidential research and the practical results of that. Science evolves - that's its nature. And there are contending theories and practices right through the history of science. But the rigour of proving something endures and is central.

So you can have opinions "about" science. But science and opinions are absolutely not the same thing. Yes?

Climate change is science. You can have opinions "about" it, but the science itself is what proves what is and isn't happening.

And in that first sentence you proved me right. This thread is about belief and what you choose to believe. "As I see it." No one has proved it to be the case 100% so what you have left is theories. Scientists are paid huge amounts in research grants by people who's interest it is in to influence them. Men went to the Moon and ever since they did others have tried their best to disprove it. You believe it or you choose not to. Science hasn't been able to prove that either way yet 100%, until it does, it's purely down to personal beliefs.

 

[les24preludes]

And in that first sentence you proved me right. This thread is about belief and what you choose to believe. "As I see it." No one has proved it to be the case 100% so what you have left is theories. Scientists are paid huge amounts in research grants by people who's interest it is in to influence them. Men went to the Moon and ever since they did others have tried their best to disprove it. You believe it or you choose not to. Science hasn't been able to prove that either way yet 100%, until it does, it's purely down to personal beliefs.

I can only repeat what I said before. I said "as I see it " because this is a forum and we're discussing things. I'm a psychologist and I used to run a university MA program. I know exactly what research is and it is absolutely NOT about opinions.

I can only repeat that climate change is about science. You're welcome to have opinions about it but opinions are NOT science.

Where opinions ARE important is how the population of the world and the politicians they elect respond or don't respond to climate change and the measures we now have to take to deal with it. That part is all about media management. There are those who respect the science and there are those that disregard it. But the science is what tells us what is and isn't happening. Opinions are worse than useless in that regard.

 

[Wayne]

Our science isn't capable of determining climate change. We aren't good enough at it yet. As I said before. What killed the Dinosaur?

 

[Charcoal]

Why?

You do realize that would raise the price of all consumer goods right? Businesses passes the cost down, they don't eat it.

Why? To offset the cost to our society the use of fossil fuels incurs.

“You do realize...?” Yes, I do realize.

 

[Charcoal]

And in that first sentence you proved me right. This thread is about belief and what you choose to believe. "As I see it." No one has proved it to be the case 100% so what you have left is theories. Scientists are paid huge amounts in research grants by people who's interest it is in to influence them. Men went to the Moon and ever since they did others have tried their best to disprove it. You believe it or you choose not to. Science hasn't been able to prove that either way yet 100%, until it does, it's purely down to personal beliefs.

It’s interesting you say nothing is 100% right but somehow you are.

If you jump out of a airplane at 30,000 feet there is a chance you will survive but would you take that chance. I mean it’s not proven that 100% of the time you die.

 

[Wayne]

It’s interesting you say nothing is 100% right but somehow you are.

If you jump out of a airplane at 30,000 feet there is a chance you will survive but would you take that chance. I mean it’s not proven that 100% of the time you die.

I never claim to be right. I'm just a Neanderthal surrounded by a sea of God's I merely try to give the point of view that for all our so called science we are still lost on a ball of Gas spinning in nothing and we don't know how and why it does it nor the mysteries of this Planet Earth. Let's start with the basics we "belive" to be true. How did everything get here and how was our home planet made? I just do not agree with others who claim to know what is happening on this planet when it has been around millions of years and we have had our science for less than 150yrs and for 100 of those we used Leeches.

 

[Steve]

Well Wayne, in a way you're right and in a way you're wrong - as I see it.

The whole point about science, and what makes it so valuable to human development is that it ISN'T about beliefs and opinions. It's very rigorously about repeatable and evidential research and the practical results of that. Science evolves - that's its nature. And there are contending theories and practices right through the history of science. But the rigour of proving something endures and is central.

So you can have opinions "about" science. But science and opinions are absolutely not the same thing. Yes?

Climate change is science. You can have opinions "about" it, but the science itself is what proves what is and isn't happening.

Scientific theories evolve. Unlike the climate change zealots.

 

[les24preludes]

Scientific theories evolve. Unlike the climate change zealots.

I sincerely hope that climate change activists continue to use everything in their power to steer the planet away from disaster. In 10 years it will already be too late for climate change deniers to say " oh.....seems now that we were wrong in 2020...oh dear". We only have one earth - there is no spare earth for mistakes.

It's disheartening to see intelligent and educated people denying the science when the scientific community is around 95% certain that the science is correct. Climate change wasn't part of the education of our older citizens, but thank goodness it's increasingly on the agenda for young people who are the ones that will suffer the most. Let's hope they get into positions of power as soon as possible. There's not much time left.

 

[Wayne]

I sincerely hope that climate change activists continue to use everything in their power to steer the planet away from disaster. In 10 years it will already be too late for climate change deniers to say " oh.....seems now that we were wrong in 2020...oh dear". We only have one earth - there is no spare earth for mistakes.

It's disheartening to see intelligent and educated people denying the science when the scientific community is around 95% certain that the science is correct. Climate change wasn't part of the education of our older citizens, but thank goodness it's increasingly on the agenda for young people who are the ones that will suffer the most. Let's hope they get into positions of power as soon as possible. There's not much time left.

Oh don't worry Soros and his minions like Sleepy Joe and Harris are on the case. They will have this planet and it's people on it's knees in a few years. It cannot be allowed to happen.

 

[Burgundy]

Denial of facts is often rooted in identity and belonging - not in ignorance. Changing minds requires a lot more than sound reasoning.

See: Brexit.

 

[Wayne]

Denial of facts is often rooted in identity and belonging - not in ignorance. Changing minds requires a lot more than sound reasoning.

See: Brexit.

Thats a very underhand statement there @Burgundy. Why don't you just say what you mean?

 

[les24preludes]

Oh don't worry Soros and his minions like Sleepy Joe and Harris are on the case. They will have this planet and it's people on it's knees in a few years. It cannot be allowed to happen.

I think you're mixing up US politics with climate change. Soros is a banker, Biden and Harris are Democrats who will make little headway in a dysfunctional political system blocked by right wingers. Very little change can be expected there. The big movers of action for climate change are the Europeans. And of course the scientific community. And increasingly the young people of the world who are getting rightfully angry at how little is being done. Hopefully we will see economic sanctions being applied as soon as possible to countries like Brazil who are murdering our rain forests for the sake of cheap beef. Let's start seeing action that starts to bite.

But how likely is it that sanctions can be imposed? Right now there is no mechanism for recognising environmental crimes, as there is for human rights abuses and nuclear non-proliferation. And sanctions are being used for politico/religious reasons (e.g. Iran vs Saudi Arabia) which have nothing to do with climate change. In fact they may exacerbate climate change by forcing countries to ramp up their internal economies by degrading their environments. We are, unfortunately, a long way off. We are not in a good place. Not at all.