A new razor comming
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Not necessarily.
I find cap riding quite an interesting phenomenon, which I don't fully understand yet. What I think so far is that it comes down to two factors:
- Blade exposure
- Blade angle
That's why I believe a razor's aggressiveness is often temporary, as muscle memory takes over with time.
2) During my parameter testing experiment, I tested blade angles ranging from 20 to 40 deg and concluded that 20 deg is by far the most efficient. I'm referring here to the blade to skin "attack" angle - the handle angle has nothing to do with it.
However, designing a razor with a 20 deg blade angle would require compromises in other areas, which is probably why we don’t see such razors on the market (I am not aware of such a razor).
So, if a razor is designed for e.g., a 30 deg angle, riding the cap decreases that angle, thereby increasing the blade’s cutting efficiency.
It might also be a combination of both factors: on one hand, artificially reducing blade exposure (which decreases efficiency), but on the other hand, increasing the blade’s cutting efficiency by reducing the blade angle. This combination can result in a smoother shave without sacrificing performance.
slapo
It's... alive!
Not necessarily, but if they're mild, they have to be built for it.
There are a few razors that feel mild which have a fairly shallow neutral angle - PAA META-4 (probably also the original Kirby Beard & Company razor), Fatip's Gentile line, RazoRock's Mamba, Superslant L1++ OC, The Goodfellas' Smile Syntesi and perhaps other razors (maybe the Leaf Twig).
RazoRock's Game Changer 68, Lupo 52 and BBS/Baby Smooth are generally regarded as pretty mild, but there's enough blade sticking out to allow for a shallower angle, particularly the BBS and Baby Smooth.
There are also some GEM razors and injectors which, at least to me, naturally encourage riding the cap.
J349
Forum GOD!
I’ve not been capable to gather a few minutes and write something more eloquent so I’ll try to summarise, firstly I appreciate being part of this testing and getting to meet Dawid, secondly I’ve liked the type of shave provided by this razor, t8 carefree use, t9 I’ve had 3 bad shaves but was a faulty blade, the last couple of shaves went great, t10 I think it’s a big boy toy but manageable. If I could choose one I’ll go for the t9 bit if I could choose a couple of baseplates I would go for t8 and t10. Regarding angles I’ve tried always to shave neutral, with the t10 I went steeper specially when shaving on boney areas.
I wish this project to be a success and need to catch up on this thread and read you guys properly.
I wish this project to be a success and need to catch up on this thread and read you guys properly.
I'm sorry it took me so long to write the report. I wasn't sure which statistical method to use (so it would filter outliers without completely removing them), but after discussing it with my friend who works with data processing on a daily basis, he suggested using both the median and the mean.
I cannot upload files here on the forum, as they are too large, but you can access them via the link:
Performance Analysis of T8, T9, and T10 Razor Heads
Edit: You don't have to log in to read the files. You can simply right click on a file and download it.
I cannot upload files here on the forum, as they are too large, but you can access them via the link:
Performance Analysis of T8, T9, and T10 Razor Heads
Edit: You don't have to log in to read the files. You can simply right click on a file and download it.
Last edited:
spacemonkey42
Forum GOD!
This is a terrific analysis, @dawid, very thoughtful and thorough! It is very interesting to read your intentions compared to our individual and group feedback. Fascinating.
Another thought, for those who prefer mild or medium razors, the jump between t8 and t9 is huge. Changing from zero to 0.1mm exposure is enormous when you're talking about blade exposure. I went back and shaved with the t9 this weekend and it was easier to use than when I first tried, because now I have a feel for your razors. As you found in your previous testing, exposure has very strong effects.
I am not a fan of blade feel, I strongly prefer less. That said, I can handle a bit more blade feel in your razors because of the great clamping and rigid edge. Yet another positive feature in your design.
Another thought, for those who prefer mild or medium razors, the jump between t8 and t9 is huge. Changing from zero to 0.1mm exposure is enormous when you're talking about blade exposure. I went back and shaved with the t9 this weekend and it was easier to use than when I first tried, because now I have a feel for your razors. As you found in your previous testing, exposure has very strong effects.
I am not a fan of blade feel, I strongly prefer less. That said, I can handle a bit more blade feel in your razors because of the great clamping and rigid edge. Yet another positive feature in your design.
bartje-p
Forum GOD!
Very thorough test results @dawid , shows afain that you are very committed to creating a good razor!
I preferred the plastic t8, but I may prefer the t9 when made from steel I guess. But I am not sure, since the added weight would also benefit the t8 in improved efficiency while keeping the comfort and lesser blade feel.
Again, thanks for all your work and effort you have put in this.
I preferred the plastic t8, but I may prefer the t9 when made from steel I guess. But I am not sure, since the added weight would also benefit the t8 in improved efficiency while keeping the comfort and lesser blade feel.
Again, thanks for all your work and effort you have put in this.
Bauhaus
Forum GOD!
Amazing testing from all you guys and really interesting to see how it differs quite a bit from person to person
I've now had three shaves with each head so far, and here is what I think (I head shave only and it looks like my results differ quite a bit from a lot of you guys. I was expecting it to, though) :
Just so you know - I have to usually do multiple against the grain passes with all razors own and also some buffing as it's hard to cleanup the stubble on the back of my head without doing this- I have very coarse hair, but I also wouldn't classify it as super dense. I'd also say my skin sensitivity is about a 6/10 maybe a 7/10 if I go off of Augustin's razor scale at the A. Durdan website. I can never get full BBS, but a good shave for me is about 60-70% BBS with 30% DFS in some areas (usually some areas on the back and back top sides of my head is the DFS result). I also have to do a bit of skin pulling on the back of the head when doing the second ATG pass and subsequent buffing to really clean up that stubble to DFS levels.
T8 - For whatever reason, I didn't get a good result/s with this. I tried both a sharp blade that I use in my razors and a milder blade. I am planning to go back and have at least one more head shave with it as I've learned a few things along the way. First thing, the first two passes were always pretty good, but on the against the grain passes I had problems with nicks and weepers and also was getting razor bumps/irritation after the shave. I am guessing this is due to a combination of the light weight and me pressing too hard to make up for the efficiency during those against the grain passes. I'll give two scores for efficiency. WTG, XTG, about 4/10 and ATG about 3/10. Here is the good thing, shave time was about 35 minutes which actually puts it as one of my faster shave times. Usually with milder razor, shaves take me anywhere from 45-60 minutes and that is just way too long. I've been looking for something to get those times down to around 30 minutes. I'd actually be happy with this if there was no irritation, nicks or weepers just due to the lower shave time, but unfortunately efficiency wasn't good enough and I was left with a between DFS and CCS shave.
T9 - After the third shave with the T8, I moved onto the T9. Very similar results on both the WTG,XTG passes, but with more efficiency (about 6/10) and again similar results going against the grain. I felt a little bit more blade feel, but nothing too much. Irritation was about the same as the T8. I am pretty sure the irritation is being caused on the ATG passes as I'd say I was putting too much pressure on those trying to cleanup the stubble on the ATG passes. I also used the plastic handles for both the T8 and T9 shaves, so that also could have affected my results by making the razors lighter.
I have a feeling that I might like both of these better if they were heavier SS versions. Can't say for sure, but that is my guess. Shave time went down slightly to about 30-35 minutes which I was pretty happy with.
T10 - I wasn't looking forward to using the T10 as I thought a more aggressive version isn't going to help things with more blade exposure/blade feel, but darn, I was wrong. The T10 was by far the best for me. I got less cuts/weepers and less irritation. One major change I did is that I used a stainless steel handle for the first shaves with it. Not sure if that made a big difference or not, or if it was just the efficiency of the head itself or a combination of the two (I think a combination of the two).
I also started off with milder blades. Result was close to the BBS/DFS combination I like. It was a little harsh in places with the blade feel, but I think this could also be due to the geometry of the head. Blade feel is more than I would like, though, but it was acceptable enough for me. I saw the redesign and I like the new curve on the top of the head/top cap. I think this will make a difference for me. The previous shave I had yesterday morning was the best yet. This time I used a sharper blade and also found I got the least amount of nicks, weepers and irritation (I still got some irritation, but hardly any nicks/weepers). So now it's just down to irritation for me with the T10 and that is probably due to the exposure/blade feel. Not sure if it's because I'm getting more used to the razor, or simply the increased efficiency, but so far, I'm really liking the T10 head. Shave times were also some of my fastest ever (about 25-30 minutes on average). I also did try the long solid plastic handle instead of SS handle I used on the first two shaves, and even though the weight was still a bit light, I found the longer handle did help with reaching the back of my head and I was able to get less irritation on the shave I had with this compared to the other ones with the stainless steel handle.
Blade feel I will say it a bit more than I generally like (I don't normally like a lot of blade feel, so I was surprised at those numbers when seeing them for the first time the other day. The exposure didn't feel like what those numbers indicate), so I wonder how it would go for me with slightly less exposure and a slightly lesser blade gap. I don't have the exposure detection skills of SpaceMonkey42, as looking at a previous post of Dawid's, it seems SpaceMonkey42 can detect all the levels of blade feel/exposure. Pretty darn impressive. I would never have guessed that the T10 was 1.5 & 0.20mm.
One thing I really loved was the rinsing of all the heads. I found it to be one of the best rinsing razors I've ever used. I just turned the head upside down and put it under running water, and all the stubble is ejected out the sides every time. No other razor I've personally tried has rinsed better than this. Usually on my last passes, tiny amounts of stubble gets stuck on the blade and I have to hold it under hot running water for a good 10-20 seconds sometimes to get that off, but with this razor, that stubble just flies off right away if I rinse it the way I described (hold the head upside down under running water - I don't even have to use hot water).
I also liked the blade clamping and didn't experience any blade chatter which was also another great thing.
I didn't love the top of the top cap with the straight angle/edge and the bulkiness of the head with the clips (I had trouble shaving around/above my ears), but I see Dawid has curved the top cap in the redesign which I think would suit me a lot better, and help when shaving the back of my head too. As mentioned, I found it a bit hard to shave the spots above my ears (I have to pull the ear down and try and get the head in that spot, so a curved top cap I think will help without those side clips too).
The other thing I didn't like was the weight. I really should have switched to a heavier handle earlier on, so I will have to go back and try at least the T9 head for a couple more shaves with a SS handle to see if it makes any difference. I don't know if I will go back to the T8 as I just don't think it was efficient enough for me.
As for angle, I'd say use neutral for at least 50% or more of the shave and then other areas (back, top back sides, top crown) riding the cap and also a little riding the safety bar. I just go by feel and sound and adjust the angle accordingly depending on what area I am shaving, as the back of the head I need to change it up in certain spots to get to the stubble properly. It's very hard to keep a consistent angle for head shaving as I feel you have to change it up on the fly (not sure if other head shavers do this). The flatter areas such as side of head, I use a more neutral angle in those areas.
Also, thanks to Dawid for letting me test this. I got in late (I missed out) and I just wanted to ask him some questions since he was designing a razor, I thought he obviously knows his stuff, so I thought I'd ask some general questions about razors as I hadn't been able to find anything that suits me. He ended up offering to let me try it, so that was super nice of him.
The one issue I have with most razors that give me very little irritation is that shave time. I get a decent result with some of my milder razors and hardly any irritation, but the shave times it takes for that is usually 45-60 minutes which are just too long for me. With more aggressive razors that I've used such as the Game Changer 1.05 and say Muhle R41 etc., shave times are better at around 35-40 minutes, but I can't seem to clean up the stubble as well on the last passes due to having too much irritation by that point, so I usually have to stop with a lesser result.
I think the T10 has bridged that gap for me (maybe a version with less blade exposure, blade gap would be ideal). I'm really keen to see if a SS version would work better for me than the 3D printed version. I'm hoping with either a medium or aggressive head it would work better in SS and get the irritation down with one of those combinations. I guess I will have to wait and see when Dawid has them available to purchase.
I've now had three shaves with each head so far, and here is what I think (I head shave only and it looks like my results differ quite a bit from a lot of you guys. I was expecting it to, though) :
Just so you know - I have to usually do multiple against the grain passes with all razors own and also some buffing as it's hard to cleanup the stubble on the back of my head without doing this- I have very coarse hair, but I also wouldn't classify it as super dense. I'd also say my skin sensitivity is about a 6/10 maybe a 7/10 if I go off of Augustin's razor scale at the A. Durdan website. I can never get full BBS, but a good shave for me is about 60-70% BBS with 30% DFS in some areas (usually some areas on the back and back top sides of my head is the DFS result). I also have to do a bit of skin pulling on the back of the head when doing the second ATG pass and subsequent buffing to really clean up that stubble to DFS levels.
T8 - For whatever reason, I didn't get a good result/s with this. I tried both a sharp blade that I use in my razors and a milder blade. I am planning to go back and have at least one more head shave with it as I've learned a few things along the way. First thing, the first two passes were always pretty good, but on the against the grain passes I had problems with nicks and weepers and also was getting razor bumps/irritation after the shave. I am guessing this is due to a combination of the light weight and me pressing too hard to make up for the efficiency during those against the grain passes. I'll give two scores for efficiency. WTG, XTG, about 4/10 and ATG about 3/10. Here is the good thing, shave time was about 35 minutes which actually puts it as one of my faster shave times. Usually with milder razor, shaves take me anywhere from 45-60 minutes and that is just way too long. I've been looking for something to get those times down to around 30 minutes. I'd actually be happy with this if there was no irritation, nicks or weepers just due to the lower shave time, but unfortunately efficiency wasn't good enough and I was left with a between DFS and CCS shave.
T9 - After the third shave with the T8, I moved onto the T9. Very similar results on both the WTG,XTG passes, but with more efficiency (about 6/10) and again similar results going against the grain. I felt a little bit more blade feel, but nothing too much. Irritation was about the same as the T8. I am pretty sure the irritation is being caused on the ATG passes as I'd say I was putting too much pressure on those trying to cleanup the stubble on the ATG passes. I also used the plastic handles for both the T8 and T9 shaves, so that also could have affected my results by making the razors lighter.
I have a feeling that I might like both of these better if they were heavier SS versions. Can't say for sure, but that is my guess. Shave time went down slightly to about 30-35 minutes which I was pretty happy with.
T10 - I wasn't looking forward to using the T10 as I thought a more aggressive version isn't going to help things with more blade exposure/blade feel, but darn, I was wrong. The T10 was by far the best for me. I got less cuts/weepers and less irritation. One major change I did is that I used a stainless steel handle for the first shaves with it. Not sure if that made a big difference or not, or if it was just the efficiency of the head itself or a combination of the two (I think a combination of the two).
I also started off with milder blades. Result was close to the BBS/DFS combination I like. It was a little harsh in places with the blade feel, but I think this could also be due to the geometry of the head. Blade feel is more than I would like, though, but it was acceptable enough for me. I saw the redesign and I like the new curve on the top of the head/top cap. I think this will make a difference for me. The previous shave I had yesterday morning was the best yet. This time I used a sharper blade and also found I got the least amount of nicks, weepers and irritation (I still got some irritation, but hardly any nicks/weepers). So now it's just down to irritation for me with the T10 and that is probably due to the exposure/blade feel. Not sure if it's because I'm getting more used to the razor, or simply the increased efficiency, but so far, I'm really liking the T10 head. Shave times were also some of my fastest ever (about 25-30 minutes on average). I also did try the long solid plastic handle instead of SS handle I used on the first two shaves, and even though the weight was still a bit light, I found the longer handle did help with reaching the back of my head and I was able to get less irritation on the shave I had with this compared to the other ones with the stainless steel handle.
Blade feel I will say it a bit more than I generally like (I don't normally like a lot of blade feel, so I was surprised at those numbers when seeing them for the first time the other day. The exposure didn't feel like what those numbers indicate), so I wonder how it would go for me with slightly less exposure and a slightly lesser blade gap. I don't have the exposure detection skills of SpaceMonkey42, as looking at a previous post of Dawid's, it seems SpaceMonkey42 can detect all the levels of blade feel/exposure. Pretty darn impressive. I would never have guessed that the T10 was 1.5 & 0.20mm.
One thing I really loved was the rinsing of all the heads. I found it to be one of the best rinsing razors I've ever used. I just turned the head upside down and put it under running water, and all the stubble is ejected out the sides every time. No other razor I've personally tried has rinsed better than this. Usually on my last passes, tiny amounts of stubble gets stuck on the blade and I have to hold it under hot running water for a good 10-20 seconds sometimes to get that off, but with this razor, that stubble just flies off right away if I rinse it the way I described (hold the head upside down under running water - I don't even have to use hot water).
I also liked the blade clamping and didn't experience any blade chatter which was also another great thing.
I didn't love the top of the top cap with the straight angle/edge and the bulkiness of the head with the clips (I had trouble shaving around/above my ears), but I see Dawid has curved the top cap in the redesign which I think would suit me a lot better, and help when shaving the back of my head too. As mentioned, I found it a bit hard to shave the spots above my ears (I have to pull the ear down and try and get the head in that spot, so a curved top cap I think will help without those side clips too).
The other thing I didn't like was the weight. I really should have switched to a heavier handle earlier on, so I will have to go back and try at least the T9 head for a couple more shaves with a SS handle to see if it makes any difference. I don't know if I will go back to the T8 as I just don't think it was efficient enough for me.
As for angle, I'd say use neutral for at least 50% or more of the shave and then other areas (back, top back sides, top crown) riding the cap and also a little riding the safety bar. I just go by feel and sound and adjust the angle accordingly depending on what area I am shaving, as the back of the head I need to change it up in certain spots to get to the stubble properly. It's very hard to keep a consistent angle for head shaving as I feel you have to change it up on the fly (not sure if other head shavers do this). The flatter areas such as side of head, I use a more neutral angle in those areas.
Also, thanks to Dawid for letting me test this. I got in late (I missed out) and I just wanted to ask him some questions since he was designing a razor, I thought he obviously knows his stuff, so I thought I'd ask some general questions about razors as I hadn't been able to find anything that suits me. He ended up offering to let me try it, so that was super nice of him.
The one issue I have with most razors that give me very little irritation is that shave time. I get a decent result with some of my milder razors and hardly any irritation, but the shave times it takes for that is usually 45-60 minutes which are just too long for me. With more aggressive razors that I've used such as the Game Changer 1.05 and say Muhle R41 etc., shave times are better at around 35-40 minutes, but I can't seem to clean up the stubble as well on the last passes due to having too much irritation by that point, so I usually have to stop with a lesser result.
I think the T10 has bridged that gap for me (maybe a version with less blade exposure, blade gap would be ideal). I'm really keen to see if a SS version would work better for me than the 3D printed version. I'm hoping with either a medium or aggressive head it would work better in SS and get the irritation down with one of those combinations. I guess I will have to wait and see when Dawid has them available to purchase.
Guys, just look at that. Finally, something is being manufactured! 
Bauhaus
Forum GOD!
Oh wow, my congratulations!Guys, just look at that. Finally, something is being manufactured!
View attachment 163011
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spacemonkey42
Forum GOD!
Yay, that is incredibly exciting, they look terrific!! I can't wait to hear how it is to use.
After a really long wait and €2750 later, I finally received the first parts yesterday:
Unfortunately, my excitement didn’t last long. Every single part I received has rather major quality issues, and the razor cannot even be used for testing. Out of the many parts I received, it was difficult to find ones of good enough quality to take the pictures above.
Fortunately, I already have another company working on the razors - hopefully this time delivering the desired level of quality.
Unfortunately, my excitement didn’t last long. Every single part I received has rather major quality issues, and the razor cannot even be used for testing. Out of the many parts I received, it was difficult to find ones of good enough quality to take the pictures above.
Fortunately, I already have another company working on the razors - hopefully this time delivering the desired level of quality.
Bauhaus
Forum GOD!
Congrats! Despite the quality issues with the first real prototype this is already a razor!! I really like how it looks, I’d keep it simpler on the base plate, just the serial number or a simple phrase, maybe it’s just for the prototype, so in that case never mind…An idea to change the handle design was a good decision, the handle looks great! Keep going, Dawid. Nice logo, by the way!