I’m waiting for the evaluation sheets from two testers. I know they’ve finished testing and evaluating, so all that’s left is the paperwork. I think we will open the discussion later this week.
A new razor comming
- Thread starter Nord Razors
- Start date
First and foremost, I would like to thank @bagman, @bartje-p, @Bauhaus, @Cleanfoam, @Holyzeus, @J349, @p.b, @Paper Plane, @Randy, @slapo, @spacemonkey42, @Ventastic, and @Ice09 for taking part in testing.
Your feedback provided me with a lot of useful input, which will definitely help to improve the final product. I will do my best to repay your time and effort spent.
The testing is over, so feel free to share your thoughts with others.
@Ice09 hasn't finished the testing yet, but as agreed with him, we shall move here. He joined the experiment quite late, so it will take him a bit longer to finalize it.
Some technicalities on the samples you tested:
I will analyze the data soon and will share the final outcome in a few upcoming days.
Once again, thank you guys
Your feedback provided me with a lot of useful input, which will definitely help to improve the final product. I will do my best to repay your time and effort spent.
The testing is over, so feel free to share your thoughts with others.
@Ice09 hasn't finished the testing yet, but as agreed with him, we shall move here. He joined the experiment quite late, so it will take him a bit longer to finalize it.
Some technicalities on the samples you tested:
- t8 blade exposure of 0.00 mm
- t9 blade exposure of 0.10 mm
- t10 blade exposure of 0.20 mm
I will analyze the data soon and will share the final outcome in a few upcoming days.
Once again, thank you guys
bartje-p
Forum GOD!
Good to hear @dawid , the pleasure was all mine. I will talk a bit more soon, but I had some initial struggles with all razors. In the next few shaves, they disappeared (almost) completely. I got a very smooth face with all of them, perhaps even smoother than with any of my own razors….. more to follow soon
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Bauhaus
Forum GOD!
I said it once and I'll say it again — @dawid thank you for this great opportunity.
Now, let's dive into the heads:
*I used a solid and short handle almost all the time, except the first try.
T8
Long story short—it became my favorite among the others. It's super smooth and super efficient. The blade feel is easily regulated by different blades, sitting somewhere around 5/10. During the ATG pass, the blade feel drops lower to about 3/10. In the end, after my usual three passes, I get a DFS+ (which is my favorite), with no irritation, zero aftershave burn, no razor burn—nothing. Somehow, it even reminded me of a shave with the Lambda Athena. Smooth, clean, and comfortable. Not much to say, I like this head. Nice choice for newbies too.
T9
This head is good. I don't know how, but the blade feel is lower than with the T8. It's still comfortable and smooth, and I got a BBS after three passes. But my skin rejected it. After two passes, I felt a skin burn. I don’t know what happened, but something just clicked in my head! I’ve experienced this before—guess with what? The Razorock GameChanger .84. The same feelings, almost identical. The shave itself is super smooth and cool, but in the end, my skin burns...
Next time, I switched the blade from Gillette Minora to TATRA. The shave was more comfortable, and my skin didn’t burn during the shave, but in the end, the aftershave lotion stung pretty badly.
I gave this head a few more tries and formed my opinion: since this head and shave reminded me of the Razorock GameChanger .84, I’d say this head will be a great match for people who enjoy using the GameChanger .84.
T10
The blade feel was increased, but efficiency felt about the same as the T9. Still smooth, but with a bit more perceived aggressiveness.
With the T9, the shave felt smooth and easy, with a moderate blade feel, but my skin didn’t love it afterward. Same situation with the T10. It’s an honest-feeling razor—I can feel the blade (8/10), and I know it’s aggressive, definitely not for a newbie. And the result on my skin is the same as with the T9.
In the end:
@dawid did a great job, really. I was impressed. Even though these prototypes are 3D printed, and the feel will definitely be different with stainless steel, I have to say—the geometry is top-notch. No blade chattering, no excessive sound, just great shavers. I'm 1000% sure many people will love this razor. I do. Also, I agree with @dawid about the new design for a handle. Looks better, though.
My personal choice? The T8 head! I just love mild razors with sharp blades.
Now, let's dive into the heads:
*I used a solid and short handle almost all the time, except the first try.
T8
Long story short—it became my favorite among the others. It's super smooth and super efficient. The blade feel is easily regulated by different blades, sitting somewhere around 5/10. During the ATG pass, the blade feel drops lower to about 3/10. In the end, after my usual three passes, I get a DFS+ (which is my favorite), with no irritation, zero aftershave burn, no razor burn—nothing. Somehow, it even reminded me of a shave with the Lambda Athena. Smooth, clean, and comfortable. Not much to say, I like this head. Nice choice for newbies too.
T9
This head is good. I don't know how, but the blade feel is lower than with the T8. It's still comfortable and smooth, and I got a BBS after three passes. But my skin rejected it. After two passes, I felt a skin burn. I don’t know what happened, but something just clicked in my head! I’ve experienced this before—guess with what? The Razorock GameChanger .84. The same feelings, almost identical. The shave itself is super smooth and cool, but in the end, my skin burns...
Next time, I switched the blade from Gillette Minora to TATRA. The shave was more comfortable, and my skin didn’t burn during the shave, but in the end, the aftershave lotion stung pretty badly.
I gave this head a few more tries and formed my opinion: since this head and shave reminded me of the Razorock GameChanger .84, I’d say this head will be a great match for people who enjoy using the GameChanger .84.
T10
The blade feel was increased, but efficiency felt about the same as the T9. Still smooth, but with a bit more perceived aggressiveness.
With the T9, the shave felt smooth and easy, with a moderate blade feel, but my skin didn’t love it afterward. Same situation with the T10. It’s an honest-feeling razor—I can feel the blade (8/10), and I know it’s aggressive, definitely not for a newbie. And the result on my skin is the same as with the T9.
In the end:
@dawid did a great job, really. I was impressed. Even though these prototypes are 3D printed, and the feel will definitely be different with stainless steel, I have to say—the geometry is top-notch. No blade chattering, no excessive sound, just great shavers. I'm 1000% sure many people will love this razor. I do. Also, I agree with @dawid about the new design for a handle. Looks better, though.
My personal choice? The T8 head! I just love mild razors with sharp blades.
bartje-p
Forum GOD!
My journey with these razors were a bit different. I struggled with the light weight, I had to adjust my shaving and use more pressure when moving the razor over my face. I tried the heads only with the solid handles, and even a few times with some of my own handles.
Initially I experienced a lot of blade feel during the shaves, which I am not a big fan off. And I had trouble with the bulk of the head, this remained during all of the shaves logically. I have spoken to @dawid about this, and he already made some changes in the design he told me.
t8:
I started with this head on advice from Dawid. Struggled during the first shave (lack of weight), experienced a lot of blade feel, but the result (even from the first shave) was excellent: super smooth face with hardly any sting from the after shave. That remained during the following shaves with this head. I used a bit more pressure during subsequent shaves and the blade feel nearly disappeared then. Still giving excellent shaves.
t9:
this head was more or less the same experience as with the t8, albeit with a bit more blade feel. But still leaving my face smooth and comfortable after the shave.
t10:
a bit more aggressive and some sting from the after shave afterwards, but no man overboard. I reckon this is a good one for people who shave every now and then, or who like a lot of blade feel. The result after the shave was still the same smooth face.
Conclusion:
I am a fan of the t8 too. Comes closer to my mild(er) razors (Game changer, Masamune, Overlander, Christopher Bradley), but with a tad more blade feel. I think it does a better job than my own razors in removing stubble though, and it gives a comfortable shave despite the blade feel. And I think once this razor has gained some weight ( ;-) ) the blade feel will almost completely have disappeared and will give an even easier shave.
So thanks again @dawid it was a pleasure being part of this round of testing! Good luck with the next steps.
Randy
Forum GOD!
T8: Blade feel is almost absent, in 7 days of growth (at least for me) it struggled and needed subsequent passes to clear the hair. The blade was very steady and there wasn't any chattering AT ALL. This happened with all three heads.
Definitely a head for a newbie and someone who wants a change from the cartridges.
T9: Not much difference here, the blade feel is a bit more, but nothing serious, you can shave fast and safe. The efficiency is not my type of thing (again 7 days of growth) but with less hairs obviously can mow down them much better. I felt some kind of pulling in the WTG pass. Same thing happened with the T8, forgot to mention it above.
T10: And here comes the king
of all my razors. Nothing, I mean nothing cuts hairs like it. So efficient but so smooth. You can definitely feel the blade, but especially in the first pass, it is almost impossible to cut yourself even if you press down.
In the ATG pass behaves exactly the same, but you must pay some kind of attention, if you press down, it won't cut you but you WILL have razor burn.
The cutting angle was very wide even for an newbie, very easy to find and maintain.
I got a 110% BBS and no other razor behaves like it. No blade chattering of course and powerful with 7 days of growth without even touching the skin.
This is THE perfect head for me and even though I can't buy it in stainless, I know that many experienced wet shavers will appreciate it a LOT.
Phenomenal and 11/10 in all aspects.
The handles aren't something special, I prefer the longer ones.
Thanks for the opportunity Dawid, it was an honour.
Definitely a head for a newbie and someone who wants a change from the cartridges.
T9: Not much difference here, the blade feel is a bit more, but nothing serious, you can shave fast and safe. The efficiency is not my type of thing (again 7 days of growth) but with less hairs obviously can mow down them much better. I felt some kind of pulling in the WTG pass. Same thing happened with the T8, forgot to mention it above.
T10: And here comes the king
of all my razors. Nothing, I mean nothing cuts hairs like it. So efficient but so smooth. You can definitely feel the blade, but especially in the first pass, it is almost impossible to cut yourself even if you press down. In the ATG pass behaves exactly the same, but you must pay some kind of attention, if you press down, it won't cut you but you WILL have razor burn.
The cutting angle was very wide even for an newbie, very easy to find and maintain.
I got a 110% BBS and no other razor behaves like it. No blade chattering of course and powerful with 7 days of growth without even touching the skin.
This is THE perfect head for me and even though I can't buy it in stainless, I know that many experienced wet shavers will appreciate it a LOT.
Phenomenal and 11/10 in all aspects.
The handles aren't something special, I prefer the longer ones.
Thanks for the opportunity Dawid, it was an honour.
bartje-p
Forum GOD!
One thing that shocked me the most was how contradictory the feedback was! I expected a variety of opinions, but I was amazed by just how different (and sometimes completely opposite) they were.
Some of you say razors should be cap driven, while others insist they should be guard driven. The same goes for shaving angle range, clogging, efficiency, smoothness, etc. I never realized how true YMMV really is. It only confirmed that offering three different baseplates is the right way to go.
The one point everyone seemed to agree on was that the razors' lack of mass is one of the biggest drawbacks at this point.
Some of you have already seen a big improvement in shaving experience just by switching to heavier handles.
The lack of mass will be fixed soon though
spacemonkey42
Forum GOD!
First, again HUGE thanks to @dawid for letting us join in the testing. It was a fun and unique experience and our feedback is helping to bring a new razor to life. Plus we were blind to the specs and not influenced by other opinions, which never happens and forced me to just focus on how each prototype worked.
Clamping was very good in all heads. Rinsing was also very good for all. I use some light aluminum razors, so the weight didn't bother me much, but I did use the longer bolt and a titanium handle to raise the mass a bit.
t8 - This head was smooth and gave an easy shave. The first pass was efficient, knocking down most of the whisker with ease. Blade feel was there, but not too much, I am not a fan of blade feel. Followup passes clipped more off, but were not as efficient. I was always left with a good shave, but not BBS in many places, despite a three-pass shave with ATG. This razor would be a good match for many. If you like a Masamune, you'd love this. If you value comfort a bit more than closeness, this is is for you.
t9 - This head was a big jump from the t8 and while more efficient, it was too aggressive for me - far too much blade feel and likely exposure. I could not shave with it at a neutral angle. I tried a couple times, then moved to riding the cap a bit. That lowered the effective exposure and made it so I could at least use the razor. The blade feel and aggressiveness dropped and the angle was more shallow. I got pretty good shaves with it, but I was not using it as intended by @dawid. It also was more prone to weepers.
t10 - This head was basically a more aggressive t9. I didn't even try to shave with it at a neutral angle. Riding the cap resulted in a similar experience to the t9. I could shave with it this way, but it had too much blade feel, which I do not like, and was too aggressive. I got pretty good shaves, but it was prone to give weepers in any place my skin wasn't perfectly smooth.
For me, something between the t8 and t9 would likely work best. I see the t8 being very popular with normal shavers and the higher exposure versions being the ones that shave enthusiasts who like aggressive razors would choose.
Neutral - as noted, my reviews focused on the performance at a neutral angle. I assume that is Dawid's intention. I have not had enough time to try all angles to see how they perform outside of neutral.
Smooth - my definition of smooth is not the same as Dawid's and is very blade-dependent. For me it is really blade/razor pairings that make a shave smooth. Even the best razor with the wrong/dull blade will be rough.
Clamping was very good in all heads. Rinsing was also very good for all. I use some light aluminum razors, so the weight didn't bother me much, but I did use the longer bolt and a titanium handle to raise the mass a bit.
t8 - This head was smooth and gave an easy shave. The first pass was efficient, knocking down most of the whisker with ease. Blade feel was there, but not too much, I am not a fan of blade feel. Followup passes clipped more off, but were not as efficient. I was always left with a good shave, but not BBS in many places, despite a three-pass shave with ATG. This razor would be a good match for many. If you like a Masamune, you'd love this. If you value comfort a bit more than closeness, this is is for you.
t9 - This head was a big jump from the t8 and while more efficient, it was too aggressive for me - far too much blade feel and likely exposure. I could not shave with it at a neutral angle. I tried a couple times, then moved to riding the cap a bit. That lowered the effective exposure and made it so I could at least use the razor. The blade feel and aggressiveness dropped and the angle was more shallow. I got pretty good shaves with it, but I was not using it as intended by @dawid. It also was more prone to weepers.
t10 - This head was basically a more aggressive t9. I didn't even try to shave with it at a neutral angle. Riding the cap resulted in a similar experience to the t9. I could shave with it this way, but it had too much blade feel, which I do not like, and was too aggressive. I got pretty good shaves, but it was prone to give weepers in any place my skin wasn't perfectly smooth.
For me, something between the t8 and t9 would likely work best. I see the t8 being very popular with normal shavers and the higher exposure versions being the ones that shave enthusiasts who like aggressive razors would choose.
Neutral - as noted, my reviews focused on the performance at a neutral angle. I assume that is Dawid's intention. I have not had enough time to try all angles to see how they perform outside of neutral.
Smooth - my definition of smooth is not the same as Dawid's and is very blade-dependent. For me it is really blade/razor pairings that make a shave smooth. Even the best razor with the wrong/dull blade will be rough.
spacemonkey42
Forum GOD!
I focused on the neutral angle for all my testing. That is Dawid's intended angle, so I tried to review it according to his design. Did you all do the same?
Because the t9 and t10 had too much blade feel and exposure for my face, I couldn't shave with them neutrally. How do you all do that? Are you hovering the cap and safety bar off of your face? Or are you able to shave with both touching in addition to the blade? That seems impossible to me, with a large-ish positive exposure.
When I strayed from neutral, the razor behaved differently, as all razors do. I wonder if with more time and clips, if I could tune in each head more to my preferences.
Because the t9 and t10 had too much blade feel and exposure for my face, I couldn't shave with them neutrally. How do you all do that? Are you hovering the cap and safety bar off of your face? Or are you able to shave with both touching in addition to the blade? That seems impossible to me, with a large-ish positive exposure.
When I strayed from neutral, the razor behaved differently, as all razors do. I wonder if with more time and clips, if I could tune in each head more to my preferences.
I am sorry, I don't have the report available yet (it's been hectic lately, a lot to catch up), so in the meantime I will give you some glimpses.
Starting from the positive side, I must say that I am very happy with the overall outcome. In general, you rated these razors very well, despite them being 3D printed, hence bulky, too light, and not providing good tolerances at all.
In total, there were 15 testers involved (12 from the forum plus 3 of my friends, who followed the methodology exactly as you).
Scoring was given on a scale of 1 to 5:
I also asked you which of the three heads were the best for you out of all of the samples you tested:
Average score for the best out of three is 4.3.
At first, it may seem that the t8 head is not a good option. While perhaps not chosen by the majority of you as the best of the three, many of you appreciated its characteristics of being careless, but still quite efficient.
On the negative side, there were three testers who had great difficulties with the razors: @bartje-p, @p.b, and @spacemonkey42.
Huge thanks to @spacemonkey42 for his input and willingness to test more to improve the razors. As an attempt to fight with too much blade feel, he received from me additional samples:
While t11, t12, and t13 didn't bring much improvement, the t14 did change quite a lot. Note that the only difference between the t9 and t14 is reduced blade gap by 0.3 mm. That was enough to drastically bring down the blade feel.
I tested the t14 too, and must admit that this might be one of the biggest improvements to these razors. Even though I do enjoy blade feel, the smoothness in the reduced blade gap razor has increased a lot.
As I wrote to @spacemonkey42, the blade gap was the very first parameter I settled on while designing these razors. After testing blade gaps up to 2.00 mm, I chose 1.50 mm and never looked back to retest them, what definitely was a mistake on my end. Now, after all other parameters have been established, polishing the blade gap brought further improvements.
To summarize the changes:
Improved geometry of the cap (top left vs top right)
Enlarged lather channels
Starting from the positive side, I must say that I am very happy with the overall outcome. In general, you rated these razors very well, despite them being 3D printed, hence bulky, too light, and not providing good tolerances at all.
In total, there were 15 testers involved (12 from the forum plus 3 of my friends, who followed the methodology exactly as you).
Scoring was given on a scale of 1 to 5:
- Whenever the score is <1;3), I consider it negative
- <3;4) is neutral
- <4;5> is positive
I also asked you which of the three heads were the best for you out of all of the samples you tested:
- Two testers chose t8
- Seven testers chose t9
- Six testers chose t10
Average score for the best out of three is 4.3.
At first, it may seem that the t8 head is not a good option. While perhaps not chosen by the majority of you as the best of the three, many of you appreciated its characteristics of being careless, but still quite efficient.
On the negative side, there were three testers who had great difficulties with the razors: @bartje-p, @p.b, and @spacemonkey42.
- For @bartje-p, the experience got dramatically improved once he came back to them after a short break, increasing the overall score of razors by two points (from 2 to 4). However, since I shared some information with him in the meantime, I include his original scoring as the final evaluation.
- @p.b experienced great improvements after switching to a heavier handle, claiming that the t10 is just spot-on for him, and even got interested in t11 with bigger blade exposure (such doesn't exist though). Once again, the original evaluation provided by Paul is considered the final.
- @spacemonkey42 experienced huge issues with the blade feel, which he doesn't enjoy. Since he was not the only one who complained about it (but was definitely the most impacted by it), we worked together a lot to get it sorted.
Huge thanks to @spacemonkey42 for his input and willingness to test more to improve the razors. As an attempt to fight with too much blade feel, he received from me additional samples:
- t11: blade exposure 0.02 mm, and blade gap 1.50 mm
- t12: blade exposure 0.05 mm, and blade gap 1.50 mm
- t13: blade exposure 0.08 mm, and blade gap 1.50 mm
- t14: blade exposure 0.10 mm, and blade gap 1.20 mm
While t11, t12, and t13 didn't bring much improvement, the t14 did change quite a lot. Note that the only difference between the t9 and t14 is reduced blade gap by 0.3 mm. That was enough to drastically bring down the blade feel.
I tested the t14 too, and must admit that this might be one of the biggest improvements to these razors. Even though I do enjoy blade feel, the smoothness in the reduced blade gap razor has increased a lot.
As I wrote to @spacemonkey42, the blade gap was the very first parameter I settled on while designing these razors. After testing blade gaps up to 2.00 mm, I chose 1.50 mm and never looked back to retest them, what definitely was a mistake on my end. Now, after all other parameters have been established, polishing the blade gap brought further improvements.
To summarize the changes:
- Geometry of the cap has been slightly modified to improve accessibility under the nose (it did not influence any shaving parameters)
- Lather channels have been enlarged (it did not influence any shaving parameters)
- The blade gap has been reduced from 1.50 mm down to 1.20 mm
- Some other, very minor changes to improve durability of heads and manufacturability in steel (shall not influence shaving experience at all)
Improved geometry of the cap (top left vs top right)
Enlarged lather channels
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That is actually quite an important aspect. It would be nice to hear from you guys if and how much you experimented with neutral vs steep/shallow angles.
I think every razor is designed for a neutral angle (mine definitely are), as in a neutral angle all parameters are properly reproduced. So if you are testing them in neutral, you can rate all parameters as intended.
Of course, it doesn't mean that riding a cap, or the baseplates is a mistake. At the end of the day, as we already confirmed above, YMMV.
slapo
It's... alive!
When I was trying out the T8, T9, V22 and V23, I tried riding the bar, neutral angle and riding the cap, and I had the same issue with them as with the Karve Bison - they felt just a touch less smooth than I'd like.
The T10 and V24 felt the smoothest of them all (riding the cap), although that extra blade exposure was a little tricky around the curves. Probably because I've been using pretty mild razors lately.
I really liked the improved flow-through of the V series. It pretty much eliminated clogging.
I'd still have preferred to be able to get a shallower blade angle with both series, but, perhaps, the lesser blade gap might make up for it somewhat.
I ended up switching to an aluminium and then a steel handle later on. It didn't change the shaves much, they just made it more comfortable for me to hold the razor.
Thanks again for letting me participate.
The T10 and V24 felt the smoothest of them all (riding the cap), although that extra blade exposure was a little tricky around the curves. Probably because I've been using pretty mild razors lately.
I really liked the improved flow-through of the V series. It pretty much eliminated clogging.
I'd still have preferred to be able to get a shallower blade angle with both series, but, perhaps, the lesser blade gap might make up for it somewhat.
I ended up switching to an aluminium and then a steel handle later on. It didn't change the shaves much, they just made it more comfortable for me to hold the razor.
Thanks again for letting me participate.
Ventastic
Forum GOD!
Hi gents, here is my take:
Regarding the weight, it really did take the initial three shaves with each head to get used to the light weight and find a blade that suited each. The blades I settled on were different for each of the heads.
The T8 turned out to be the safest-feeling head—a razor you can just throw around your face without much thought. With the right, very sharp blade, the shave result was acceptable, though slightly below what I was looking for.
The T9, I couldn't get used to. It was too aggressive to shave with pressure, yet too light and not aggressive enough to simply glide over my face. By no means was it a terrible shave, but out of the three, it was the only one where I experienced tugging.
The T10 certainly took some getting used to. It is an assertive razor, and you need to approach the shave with a bit of care. With a light touch, even this lightweight razor glided through stubble as if there were nothing there. I would be concerned about its aggressiveness in a heavier build, but in this material, it was my favorite. Super smooth skin for a very, very long time—and not a hint of irritation.
I welcome the change to a 1.2 gap, as I think this razor, with its high exposure, could benefit from it. Perhaps a 1.2 model with a 0.15 exposure is on the cards? I would pay to try it.
Another big thank you to Dawid for the opportunity to take part in this fascinating and professionally organized test. Even now the evaluation process is very impressive. Bravo!!
Regarding the weight, it really did take the initial three shaves with each head to get used to the light weight and find a blade that suited each. The blades I settled on were different for each of the heads.
The T8 turned out to be the safest-feeling head—a razor you can just throw around your face without much thought. With the right, very sharp blade, the shave result was acceptable, though slightly below what I was looking for.
The T9, I couldn't get used to. It was too aggressive to shave with pressure, yet too light and not aggressive enough to simply glide over my face. By no means was it a terrible shave, but out of the three, it was the only one where I experienced tugging.
The T10 certainly took some getting used to. It is an assertive razor, and you need to approach the shave with a bit of care. With a light touch, even this lightweight razor glided through stubble as if there were nothing there. I would be concerned about its aggressiveness in a heavier build, but in this material, it was my favorite. Super smooth skin for a very, very long time—and not a hint of irritation.
I welcome the change to a 1.2 gap, as I think this razor, with its high exposure, could benefit from it. Perhaps a 1.2 model with a 0.15 exposure is on the cards? I would pay to try it.
Another big thank you to Dawid for the opportunity to take part in this fascinating and professionally organized test. Even now the evaluation process is very impressive. Bravo!!