Economists - the new enemy?

[les24preludes]

I was shocked to read a report on France 24 on the destruction of the world's soils. Soils are shrinking due to overuse of pesticides and the destruction of forests. The situation could be critical in 50 years. In France the clever farmers are practising "conservation farming" to try and restore the health of the soil.

Yet more madness caused by the obsession with screwing everything possible out of the earth's resources whatever the cost. It's disgusting.

https://www.soilassociation.org/media/4673/living-soils-a-call-to-action-2015.pdf

What is Conservation Agriculture? - Agricology

A short summary of Conservation Agriculture and the benefits of the approach.

www.agricology.co.uk

 

[R181]

I was shocked to read a report on France 24 on the destruction of the world's soils. Soils are shrinking due to overuse of pesticides and the destruction of forests. The situation could be critical in 50 years. In France the clever farmers are practising "conservation farming" to try and restore the health of the soil.

Yet more madness caused by the obsession with screwing everything possible out of the earth's resources whatever the cost. It's disgusting.

Yes, we do that sort of thing with most resources. For hundreds of years the cod fisheries on the Grand Banks off of Newfoundland gave a good living to all. Post WWII with larger ships, bigger gear and motherships to process on the spot it did not take all that long to destroy that fishery. We did the same in forestry and soon harvested more trees than we could regenerate to assure a sustainable supply of wood. It is a long list.

Bob

 

[les24preludes]

This pandemic has changed my views on a lot of things. Two that stand out are:

The Working Class
We quickly discovered who were the "essential workers" during this crisis. Firemen, ambulance drives, delivery people, shop staff, farmers, fruit and veg pickers, fishermen, care workers, medical staff. Everyone involved in utilities - water, electricity, rubbish collection, sewage. And all kinds of people in the manufacturing industries who started making masks, ventilators and other devices. Many of these were previously earning a pittance on the gig economy. They have been looked down on, poorly paid and passed over for years. Now they are being clapped every night. The "new normal" has revealed just how essential these people are, while those in the service and leisure industries have been revealed as simply providing non-essential luxuries in a time of crisis. We can largely live without tourism, hotels and restaurants, however culturally rich they are.

Nationalism
Are we seeing multiculturalism decline as an idea and nationalism becoming the "new normal"? Is there a kind of "clean" and positive version of nationalism? Not patriots and the arms industry, however important these are when facing ultimate threats. Not populist and/or corrupt dictators who put personal greed ahead of the welfare of their populations. I'm thinking of regenerating all the home industries lost in globalisation. Eating our own fish, fruit and vegetables when in season. Making our own goods rather than outsourcing to the Far East, where industries still dependent on coal are much greater polluters. Taking holidays at home rather than in Disneyland or Torremolinos. Reviving the history, culture and folk music (tat's a tough one, I'm a jazz musician...) of individual countries. Travelling around our counties by rail rather than aeroplanes. This isn't new - it was exactly what the world was like before WW2 and in the 1950s. Some of us still remember that time. No computers, very little television. Lots of kids playing and adults doing things outside and lots of DIY. It all worked for centuries, before the cult of the ego, fuelled by the media, took us into ever more frivolous pursuits.

I hope to see some radical changes in the near future before saving the planet becomes a lost cause.

 

[RussellR5555]

That

This pandemic has changed my views on a lot of things. Two that stand out are:

The Working Class
We quickly discovered who were the "essential workers" during this crisis. Firemen, ambulance drives, delivery people, shop staff, farmers, fruit and veg pickers, fishermen, care workers, medical staff. Everyone involved in utilities - water, electricity, rubbish collection, sewage. And all kinds of people in the manufacturing industries who started making masks, ventilators and other devices. Many of these were previously earning a pittance on the gig economy. They have been looked down on, poorly paid and passed over for years. Now they are being clapped every night. The "new normal" has revealed just how essential these people are, while those in the service and leisure industries have been revealed as simply providing non-essential luxuries in a time of crisis. We can largely live without tourism, hotels and restaurants, however culturally rich they are.

Nationalism
Are we seeing multiculturalism decline as an idea and nationalism becoming the "new normal"? Is there a kind of "clean" and positive version of nationalism? Not patriots and the arms industry, however important these are when facing ultimate threats. Not populist and/or corrupt dictators who put personal greed ahead of the welfare of their populations. I'm thinking of regenerating all the home industries lost in globalisation. Eating our own fish, fruit and vegetables when in season. Making our own goods rather than outsourcing to the Far East, where industries still dependent on coal are much greater polluters. Taking holidays at home rather than in Disneyland or Torremolinos. Reviving the history, culture and folk music (tat's a tough one, I'm a jazz musician...) of individual countries. Travelling around our counties by rail rather than aeroplanes. This isn't new - it was exactly what the world was like before WW2 and in the 1950s. Some of us still remember that time. No computers, very little television. Lots of kids playing and adults doing things outside and lots of DIY. It all worked for centuries, before the cult of the ego, fuelled by the media, took us into ever more frivolous pursuits.

I hope to see some radical changes in the near future before saving the planet becomes a lost cause.

I think your view of the past is Rose tinted , as that was fine if you happened to be in a wealthy country that was exploiting the poorer countries. Borders serve the rich and you only create mass migration where you start wars or create massive economic disparity.

The 2 most positive environmental acts you could do immediately is to as you say encourage a model that produces locally , and dare I say it stop eating meat as this practice is responsible for the creation of a lot of viruses and making the drugs ineffective.

 

[Missoni]

CV-19 has at least shown, to those that did not know, that those who are the most valuable to our communities and that we rely on the most, are absurdly, often amongst the lowest paid.

 

[RussellR5555]

CV-19 has at least shown, to those that did not know, that those who are the most valuable to our communities and that we rely on the most, are absurdly, often amongst the lowest paid.

I agree , but then yesterday I saw them advertising for postal workers at just above minimum wage in the UK.

 

[les24preludes]

Depressing to hear the boss of Heathrow say "we need to get air traffic back to full capacity as soon as possible so as not to lose our competitive advantage". Global warming is nowhere once again. Capitalism is going to be a poisonous mindset for the New Normal. In recent months we've learned to co-operate. We can't let that die again.

 

[basileusss]

In my country there are only 2 issues : hair saloons and coffeeshops . 24/7 . We need the hair saloons open and a place to sit to drink coffee.That's all.
Online school is a joke - a bad one.
I think the first step is to admit we are degenerating and already sick and start from there , re-learning common sense ,baby steps.
Resisting propaganda would be nice too...

 

[Deleted member 476]

Can't close down the entire economy, public services and peoples social circles for 18+ months, until a possible vaccine becomes available. Protect the vulnerable in the best way possible and get everyone back to work is the best path forward, IMO.

 

[les24preludes]

All the steps we need to take to deal with Global Warming are going to be unpopular, that's just a fact. And explains why we've done very little about it.

And how about limiting families to 2 children? Look at the screams when China limited the number of births per family.

We've seen how people can give up their "individual liberties" faced with coronavirus. It can happen..... has to happen....

 

[les24preludes]

Can't close down the entire economy, public services and peoples social circles for 18+ months, until a possible vaccine becomes available. Protect the vulnerable in the best way possible and get everyone back to work is the best path forward, IMO.

Governments around the globe are designing blueprints for getting back to work. Lots of detail, dates and strategies.

Where is the blueprint for the social changes needed to stop Global Warming? That's right - there isn't one.

 

[basileusss]

Can't close down the entire economy, public services and peoples social circles for 18+ months, until a possible vaccine becomes available. Protect the vulnerable in the best way possible and get everyone back to work is the best path forward, IMO.

We should use this covid to re-evaluate the meaning of "economy" .Economy should not be a fancy word for " warehouse for chinese products" and shopping centers where the products from warehouses are sold.
At least we protect thevulnerable ,older people got a phone call from the doctor - in case you are infected you have 2 options ,stay home and/or we give you morphine ( true story with names).
God help us.

 

[MPF9]

I remember when younger, there were Cafes, very few Restaurants and they were mainly attached to Hotels. Eating out was not common. The Take Away was the Hippie, and one had home cooked meals.

DIY was unknown, people used builders. decorators, plumbers who charged fees which ordinary folk could afford. Cars and Foreign holidays unknown. I think there is a greater wealth gap than there ever was. The Clothes which we wore
were made in UK, and superior in quality to that being sold today. I still have an M&S Polo Shirt over 40yrs old, still wearable and more pleasant to feel than modern materials. A shame that the Accountants etc decided that we did not need our Manufacturing Industries as everything could be produced abroad.

Life over the Years has changed a lot, our expectations are higher and we have become a rather spendthrift and throwaway society. Clothes brought and hardly worn, new car every 3years, children brought a Car at 17+. Eating out on a regular basis. Want something- use Plastic !!. I recently changed my little TV [ after 16years] for something bigger,
and found out that people were spending Thousands on TVs and sound systems. The Current Epidemic really shows how we are rather dependent on consumerism , as so many Companies seem to be in danger of going under.

When this is all over, will those who are now being called "Heroes " get financial recompense ? I somehow doubt it. There are a lot out there receiving [ not earn ] rather huge Salaries, who will continue to do so, and if the truth be known do not justify their existence.

 

[Missoni]

There was a reason why the UK had it's own truly independent deterrent, produced our own planes, trains, ships and vehicles, owned our own water, gas and electric supplies and farmed our own staple food supplies. I hope we remember the importance for self-sufficiency for key strategic products again.

 

[les24preludes]

There was a reason why the UK had it's own truly independent deterrent, produced our own planes, trains, ships and vehicles, owned our own water, gas and electric supplies and farmed our own staple food supplies. I hope we remember the importance for self-sufficiency for key strategic products again.

I couldn't agree more. But will it happen? No - because multinationals will use the cheapest source of everything to maximise profits. And politicians will sit on the boards of these companies, lobby for them, and buy their shares.