Climate Change......

[les24preludes]

Missoni - on page 5 you posted that

" Fossil fuels are cheap and currently supply 80% of the world’s energy; it is hard to see how we will go to zero in 30 or 50 years as much as that would be welcome. And lets not forget that the Paris Agreement may be a good first-step, but it is just that, a first-step; the reality of the agreement is, it only -

• Has 5-year reviews with self reporting
• Has no enforcement mechanism
• Is non binding
• US, EU, Japan will not meet their 2030 commitments without further policy changes.
• Chinese commitment to peak C02 emissions by 2030 is on track.

How do you see the Paris agreement progressing?

 

[Burgundy]

Thats a very underhand statement there @Burgundy. Why don't you just say what you mean?

I mean precisely what I posted.

Our worldview - and our reaction to others’ - is shaped by our identities. As satisfying as it might be, there is no progress to be enjoyed in disproving your opinions by reason. Partly in this case because you appear to reject the scientific method. But mostly because such a I’m right and you’re wrong line insinuates ignorance and can only lead to your entrenching in your worldview since an attack on your worldview is tantamount to an attack on your identity.

Instead, changing minds in this day and age often takes a spirit of amity and respect where openness can unfold and a willingness to listen and internalise can emerge.

 

[les24preludes]

.... changing minds in this day and age often takes a spirit of amity and respect where openness can unfold and a willingness to listen and internalise can emerge.

I'd like to hope you're right. It also takes vision, though.

 

[Wayne]

I mean precisely what I posted.

Our worldview - and our reaction to others’ - is shaped by our identities. As satisfying as it might be, there is no progress to be enjoyed in disproving your opinions by reason. Partly in this case because you appear to reject the scientific method. But mostly because such a I’m right and you’re wrong line insinuates ignorance and can only lead to your entrenching in your worldview since an attack on your worldview is tantamount to an attack on your identity.

Instead, changing minds in this day and age often takes a spirit of amity and respect where openness can unfold and a willingness to listen and internalise can emerge.

Thank you for clearing that up although I did see your reference to Brexit which says more about what you actually meant than what you have replied. What I see these days is a push by Teachers in particular to push their own views on impressionable young minds in order to get them early. This is then pressed further whilst they are still young enough to be manipulated at University. We are seeing much more political grooming of our youth in Schools and Universities. Luckily for me my education was caried out in an age where Teachers taught knowledge and didn't preach.
Therefore instead of being indoctrinated I was left with the ability to make up my own mind on such matters. I'm always willing to listen but I'm also willing to question what people who claim to know more than I have to gain in their pushing of ideas and what their motives are. I can clearly see the motive behind this thread. It's exactly the same as what happens in our learning facilties a relentless pushing of ideologies on others in order to have them follow anothers doctrine.
Thank you but this uneducated, Working class oik, won't be falling for it. Re the Brexit reference.

 

[Steve]

Thank you for clearing that up although I did see your reference to Brexit which says more about what you actually meant than what you have replied. What I see these days is a push by Teachers in particular to push their own views on impressionable young minds in order to get them early. This is then pressed further whilst they are still young enough to be manipulated at University. We are seeing much more political grooming of our youth in Schools and Universities. Luckily for me my education was caried out in an age where Teachers taught knowledge and didn't preach.
Therefore instead of being indoctrinated I was left with the ability to make up my own mind on such matters. I'm always willing to listen but I'm also willing to question what people who claim to know more than I have to gain in their pushing of ideas and what their motives are. I can clearly see the motive behind this thread. It's exactly the same as what happens in our learning facilties a relentless pushing of ideologies on others in order to have them follow anothers doctrine.
Thank you but this uneducated, Working class oik, won't be falling for it. Re the Brexit reference.

It's funny how the "enlightened" class always thinks it is others who must see the light. The Left fully embraces climate change, while those on the Right are dubious of findings that entail more governmental control over the lives of people. And this is not political?

 

[Burgundy]

Thank you for clearing that up although I did see your reference to Brexit which says more about what you actually meant than what you have replied. What I see these days is a push by Teachers in particular to push their own views on impressionable young minds in order to get them early. This is then pressed further whilst they are still young enough to be manipulated at University. We are seeing much more political grooming of our youth in Schools and Universities. Luckily for me my education was caried out in an age where Teachers taught knowledge and didn't preach.
Therefore instead of being indoctrinated I was left with the ability to make up my own mind on such matters. I'm always willing to listen but I'm also willing to question what people who claim to know more than I have to gain in their pushing of ideas and what their motives are. I can clearly see the motive behind this thread. It's exactly the same as what happens in our learning facilties a relentless pushing of ideologies on others in order to have them follow anothers doctrine.
Thank you but this uneducated, Working class oik, won't be falling for it. Re the Brexit reference.

Not really. That’s not how I see it. Brexit is an issue which is rooted in identity politics in a similar way to climate change denial, women’s rights etc are. Your closing statement is evidence enough of that.

Note that I’m not suggesting that (let alone how or why) you are wrong in your views.

 

[les24preludes]

Speaking of the progress of talks, there doesn't yet seem to have been much progress on the Paris Agreement:

"Institutional asset owners associations and think-tanks have also observed that the stated objectives of the Paris Agreement are implicitly "predicated upon an assumption – that member states of the United Nations, including high polluters such as China, the US, India, Russia, Japan, Germany, South Korea, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Canada, Indonesia and Mexico, which generate more than half the world's greenhouse gas emissions, will somehow drive down their carbon pollution voluntarily and assiduously without any binding enforcement mechanism to measure and control CO 2 emissions at any level from factory to state, and without any specific penalty gradation or fiscal pressure (for example a carbon tax) to discourage bad behaviour."

How does this then shift to an assumption that high polluters will not voluntarily measure and control CO2 emissions?

 

[Wayne]

Not really. That’s not how I see it. Brexit is an issue which is rooted in identity politics in a similar way to climate change denial, women’s rights etc are. Your closing statement is evidence enough of that.

Note that I’m not suggesting that (let alone how or why) you are wrong in your views.

Once more your implied superiority shines through brightly.

 

[Burgundy]

Once more your implied superiority shines through brightly.

You’re welcome! But I am sad that this went full circle:

But mostly because such a I’m right and you’re wrong line insinuates ignorance and can only lead to your entrenching in your worldview since an attack on your worldview is tantamount to an attack on your identity.

 

[les24preludes]

The next step looks to be the 2021 United Nations Climate Change Conference, COP26, to be held in Glasgow from 1 to 12 November 2021 under the presidency of the UK Government. This conference is the first time that Parties are expected to commit to enhanced ambition since COP21. Parties are required to do every five years, as outlined in the Paris Agreement, a process colloquially known as the 'ratchet mechanism'. Sponsors for the UN's COP26 climate talks in Glasgow will also need to have strong climate credentials.

After the shock of a world pandemic, maybe this particular conference will see a coming together of countries in a common purpose. And hopefully a meaningful final accord.

 

[Wayne]

You’re welcome! But I am sad that this went full circle:

My point proved admirably

 

[Burgundy]

My point proved admirably

Yes, I agree. The perceived threat leads to entrenchment via ‘His values appear to be liberal. He seems to be part of the liberal tribe. I think that that the liberal tribe think that they’re superior to ‘uneducated working class oiks’. He’s making out that he’s better than me. He’s not worth listening to.’

As it turns out, I think your insight into echo chambers existing within (sections of) the education system holds some water.

 

[Wayne]

Yes, I agree. The perceived threat leads to entrenchment via ‘His values appear to be liberal. He seems to be part of the liberal tribe. I think that that the liberal tribe think that they’re superior to ‘uneducated working class oiks’. He’s making out that he’s better than me. He’s not worth listening to.’

As it turns out, I think your insight into echo chambers existing within (sections of) the education system holds some water.

Thank you for that. It's appreciated.

 

[TobyC]

Climate change is driven by science. I repeat - this thread is not about politics, it's about the science of climate change. Sure, you're free to post whatever you like but I don't see you saying anything meaningful whatsoever about climate change. And please don't try to tell me what I know and what I don't know. This thread isn't about rhetorical games. It's about climate change.

The current climate change warriors are politically driven, they manipulate or flat out create the numbers to manipulate, regulate, and control the global economy. Money, control, and power, that's the agenda, and you can either submit or fight back. I am no sheep.

 

[TobyC]

What I see these days is a push by Teachers in particular to push their own views on impressionable young minds in order to get them early. This is then pressed further whilst they are still young enough to be manipulated at University. We are seeing much more political grooming of our youth in Schools and Universities. Luckily for me my education was caried out in an age where Teachers taught knowledge and didn't preach.

Thank you! It's called brain washing, a whole generation with false knowledge and a forced agenda, they are being used as political pawns.