Simpson Brushes Appreciation Thread

Shaun2

Forum GOD!
That PL14 standing between the two chubbies in the last photo looks like it has that old rod stock rosy hue about it. Or it is just a trick of the light? All beautiful. I prefer the Chubby on the right, the one with the more distinctive bulb shape/lamp black. It also has a lighter shade of 'ivory white' than the other two brushes.

What are the dimensions of that PL14? Knot looks massive.
 
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Okku

Forum GOD!
That PL14 standing between the two chubbies in the last photo looks like it has that old rod stock rosy hue about it. Or it is just a trick of the light? All beautiful. I prefer the Chubby on the right, the one with the more distinctive bulb shape/lamp black. It also has a lighter shade of 'ivory white' than the other two brushes.

What are the dimensions of that PL14? Knot looks massive.
The knot is 31 with a loft of 60-61. I've attached a pic of it under different lighting for colour comparison.
The chubby on the right (bulb shape) in the last pic is a Carter era, and the one on the far left is from modern Vulfix Simpson. The Carter-era chubby is much softer, and there are no upside-down hairs.
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Okku

Forum GOD!
This polo didn't come in regular Simpsons packaging either. Not sure why as all the brushes were in a typical grey box you would find at the time.
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Shaun2

Forum GOD!
This polo didn't come in regular Simpsons packaging either. Not sure why as all the brushes were in a typical grey box you would find at the time. View attachment 159539View attachment 159540
Looks to have that very desirable rosy hue! Why no grey box? Because the grey box wasn't large/long enough for the PL14. Simpson does sell an extra large travel tube the PL14 will fit inside comfortably, though, but I can't imagine travelling with a brush that large!

I agree regarding your comment on the Carter-era Chubby.

In my thinking, there are two Carter-era phases: an early phase from where your Chubby and PL14 derive, where old rod stock was being used up (I therefore classify them as "real" Somerset or Simpson family brushes) and a later phase, as per my comments earlier in the thread. These later-phase Carter brushes have a slightly different lamp-black look (?) and have a brighter white resin handle, with floppier but still very nice loft.

I'll post an example of each below (later phase Chubby 1 in Super on the left; later-phase Chubby 2 on the right). Perfect examples of what I mean, and I have seen many others, including the Polo series.

In fact, there was still some of that rosy stock handle around even into the Vulfix era (after 2008). I have a Harvard Vulfix with that rosy hue.
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Okku

Forum GOD!
Looks to have that very desirable rosy hue! Why no grey box? Because the grey box wasn't large/long enough for the PL14. Simpson does sell an extra large travel tube the PL14 will fit inside comfortably, though, but I can't imagine travelling with a brush that large!

I agree regarding your comment on the Carter-era Chubby.

In my thinking, there are two Carter-era phases: an early phase from where your Chubby and PL14 derive, where old rod stock was being used up (I therefore classify them as "real" Somerset or Simpson family brushes) and a later phase, as per my comments earlier in the thread. These later-phase Carter brushes have a slightly different lamp-black look (?) and have a brighter white resin handle, with floppier but still very nice loft.

I'll post an example of each below (later phase Chubby 1 in Super on the left; later-phase Chubby 2 on the right). Perfect examples of what I mean, and I have seen many others, including the Polo series.

In fact, there was still some of that rosy stock handle around even into the Vulfix era (after 2008). I have a Harvard Vulfix with that rosy hue.
View attachment 159543
The later-era knot appears to look more fan-shaped than bulbed. Is there any upside down hairs and how does the hair compared to modern Simpsons hair?
 

Shaun2

Forum GOD!
The later-era knot appears to look more fan-shaped than bulbed. Is there any upside down hairs and how does the hair compared to modern Simpsons hair?
In my observation, you're right regarding the fan shape of the "later-phase". Earlier Simpsons back to butterscotch days tend more toward bulb, but they all vary. Modern Chubby hair (Best) is just too dense for me, quite frankly, and can be quite a lather hog. Having said that, I have other modern/more recent Simpson that are very good indeed, but for me, an earlier Simpson loft is just better, somehow. There were always differences anyway because of the batches of hair available through the seasons and years, so all comments can only be general.

As to upside-down hairs, I haven't gone onto that, but it is not a biggie for me anyway. In my thinking, it is just indicative of a loft being hand sorted, hand-tied and so on. You may also notice on the underside of your lamp-blacked handle bases clear sign of hand-lathing, perhaps a dot right at the centre. Very recent Vulfix-era brush handles don't show that.

Your recent acquisitions are very highly desirable! The only ones to surpass them, IMO, are fully-intact Simpson butterscotch/catalin. Never seen a Polo in butterscotch though. Maybe they didn't ever make them at Nimmer Mills (?)

So in my thinking, your Polos are the best you can possibly get!

A Polo in butterscotch may turn up some day... but I doubt it :wink: I hope someone proves me wrong!!
 

Okku

Forum GOD!
I find up-side-down hairs usually make a brush more prickly, but knowing it's more likely to be a natural handtied knot, it's a pro.
The Polo 14, I feel, may be desirable, but I don't think it's practical. After purchasing it, I realised it would end up like my BK12 used once or twice a year. The Persian jar knot is probably my favorite, but I prefer the tulip handle. I want to pick up a polo eight if the opportunity comes, as this would be the ideal size.
I don't use any of the modern chubbies as I find them too dense and insufficient flow. Apart from my two band silvertip chubby which is perfect has the knot construction and shape like the carter era chubby but different grade hair.
 

Shaun2

Forum GOD!
I have no knowledge of when Simpson's first made the Polo (anyone??) but I do have a copy of their 1968 Catalogue (Nimmer Mills, Somerset) featuring three sizes of Polo: 8, 10 and 12, all in Best. The shape is very much the same as OKKU's Polo14 seen above (in Super), but the 1968 decal is a bit different (for those with a sharp eye).

Here is the Catalogue section featuring the Polo trio. I think the handle and loft shape adds weight to my view that OKKU's is a Nimmer Mills Somerset, old stock handle (has anyone ever seen a butterscotch Polo example?) I would be more than happy to be countered on this, as it all adds to the information base re the Simpson production timeline.

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Shaun2

Forum GOD!
Some notes re my own Polo14 in 3-band Super Badger. I'm not going to be brief, but I have some pictures to illustrate my observations.

First, this is a spectacular brush, and yes, I will use it. Dimensions, noting that all Simpson brushes from an earlier period were each a little different:
  • Knot: 33mm
  • Loft: 63mm
  • Handle: 82mm
  • Total height:145mm
Note the dimension differences of today's brush:
  • Knot: 31mm
  • Loft: 58mm
  • Handle: 82mm
  • Total height: 140mm
Here is mine after its first wash, showing the natural bloom:

IMG_5880.jpg


I can immediately see that this is very much in the shape and style of the Nimmer Mills brushes. The decal is the older 'water' type designed to eventually slide off but revealing 'Simpson' stamped underneath. It is not a 'sticker' that you now see on later, Vulfix brushes.

Second, the lamp-black is stamped or indented into the handle. Later Carter-era brushes have lamp black, but in those examples, it tends to sit right at the surface with little evident indentation.

On this brush, there is evidence of double-stamping, and possibly a first failed decal application. Double layering. Touching the lamp-black produced a smudge, so I carefully cleaned it and cautiously applied a thin layer of nail varnish over both the stamping and decal. Hardly noticeable 24 hours later. Some purists might not like that, but I like to preserve the details.

The loft is absolutely beautiful; nice white tips; plenty of backbone, and yes, it whips up and yields a very generous lather. Despite the bulk, it is better IMO than the larger lofts of today's Simpson's offerings, which I think cram in too much hair and have a shorter loft. This Polo is an eminently usable firm yet soft brush.

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Some of you will know that when Simpson sold the business off to Carter/Woodhouse some time in 1990, they used a different lathe set up to turn the handles. At that point in time, master-lather Stan Archer had taken retirement, along with Beryl Parsons who had tied the knots. This is not a handle turned by Archer, but the loft certainly looks like one tied by someone as skilled as Parsons. It is superb.

With the change over, the new electric lathes were so different that the remaining turners (including a man called "Russell", as far as my researches go) had some difficulty adjusting. The old water-turned lathe was brought up from Nimmer and adapted, but there were still issues, including 'chipping' of the resin. On this Polo example, I think you can see, upon close inspection, some trace evidence of this issue.

Inside the concave base, you can see lathe lines but also a bit of a blur at the centre, rather than the neat tiny Stan Archer circle/dot or similar. Also, you can see a slight 'frosting' which is really micro-flecking. Very micro. I have no problem with this. It tells the story of adapting to the new lathing process:

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Next picture shows the obvious lathing lines near the base. I like them, but Stan Archer may not have. His lathing was very fine indeed. Look also to the rim edge: a bit of 'frost', not the uniform clean, mirror shine of the earlier lathed Nimmer Mills brushes:

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In summary: I have what I think is a transition brush, dating at the earliest 1989, latest 1991. I may have this all wrong, and I'd like to be corrected if anyone has better information.

Gary Young (Simpson family) advised buyers to see if they could pick up a Catalin brush from the mid-80s when, he said, Simpsons (Nimmer Mills days) were producing their best-ever brushes. Simpson continued using Catalin until the late 80s, but this Polo is not Catalin. Hence my date attribution. In a certain light, the handle can take on a rosy hue but perhaps that's just my imagination. Not sure.

Of course, you can see that the handle shape and loft of this example is very much in keeping with the earlier Simpson Polo brushes (image of the Polo trio in above post). It came from a suitcase full of brushes from the David Carter estate.

Question: was it a 'second', but still suitable as a sales model? No matter to me. I love it and will look after it. I have an extra-large Simpson tube coming in the post.

I hope I haven't taken up too much space here, or your time. Your comments would be very welcome.
 
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Shaun2

Forum GOD!
Hi Shaun

Any idea why they named it Polo?
I haven't a clue. I've looked into it, and also tried to find out when they were first made. The only definitive proof so far is the 1968 catalogue referenced above, but I have the sense that only relatively few were made because I have never seen an example in butterscotch. In 1968, they would surely have been turned in Catalin (?) I just haven't found any evidence of earlier manufacture... yet. I'd also like to know why they were called "Polo".
 
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Shaun2

Forum GOD!
For those who don't know or haven't seen, this coloured brochure from Simpsons during the (later?) Nimmer Mills days shows Stan Archer, master lather, who started with Simpsons in London when he was only 15. Here, you can see him tying the knots. Also note the Persian Jars with stamped lamp black.
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Shaun2

Forum GOD!
...and then I find one... online... in butterscotch. I found this on a 'cousin' shaving website; hope it's ok to post here. This Polo 14 is owned by Melyus (haven't seen for a while.. anyone?)

Check it out. Quite different to any other I have seen, noting the distinctively different three-band loft (67mm!!) in Best and the very narrow waist. Clearly Catalin, and possibly a quite early brush. Year? No idea. 1970? American market? Unless we chat to Melyus, we may never know!
  • Handle: 82mm
  • Loft: 67mm
  • Knot: 34mm

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Dj-Steved

Brush Addict
I knew I had a Simpson brush that came in the same red box with the clear lid like above.

So I delved through the collection and found it, it is a Chubby 2 made for Harrods.

It still has the price sticker on the bottom, £110 a hefty price back then

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