Shavemac D01 2 band. The enigma.

[Britva]

I have one currently. I tried another one a few years ago. Although my current knot is flat shaped, and the previous one was bulb, I would say this is the same hair and there was no batch variation (remember, 2 years apart).

Now for a more in-depth analysis.. and here are the two specimens (sorry about the Insta links, I don’t have these photos at hand anymore).

Flat top:
https://instagram.com/p/BfS5ARDFH8M/

Bulb:
https://instagram.com/p/BLzbHEzDwoz/


In appearance, I find this hair truly intriguing. To me it feels like best badger, but with a more brighter appearance of the yellow band, which overall creates a greater contrast between the bands. Very beautiful indeed, and very natural.

On hair strength and feel, I will say, the D01 in bulb shape felt very strong in general, and hence very scritchy. Unless you lathered up in a bowl and then applied the lather to face, this thing would give your face a real workout. My current D01 flat-shaped has a higher loft, so I find it overall a very versatile brush and one I truly enjoy. (Previous owner didn’t like it, which is fair enough) Admittedly, these two brushes could give an impression of being different, but in fact they are the same. Pressure here makes all the difference. If you use the same pressure, the brushes will appear different, due to the different shape and loft. However, if you adjust the pressure, you can make these two feel the same (tip feel on the face, strictly). So for example, I let my wife use it, and she described it as soft. This is not because she has the skin of a rhino, but it is because she wasn’t pushing on the brush at all. This is key in using D01 IMO and where its value lies - It gives you what you need. It can give you a real strong exfoliation, or a very gentle one. I confirmed this many times during face lathering.

As for others describing the knot, well... I read one guy say “it’s very soft, but not as soft as a 2-band silvertip which is super soft”. Once you start introducing adjectives like “super”, “ultra”, “uber” etc, the meaning of soft is gone. Yeah, it’s soft compared to my grill cleaner, too. :P (As a side note, we have the same issue in describing hardness of whetstones)

Comparing D01 to another 2-band only makes sense if the 2-band is a Simpson manchurian. Other two bands, such as finest, 2-band silvertips, or Shavemac’s 2-band Unique are completely different IMO, they are cloud-soft on the tips compared to D01. I am certain D01 will never become a 2-band silvertip, and I wouldn’t want it to! I haven’t had it for long enough to say for certain, but if I’m to judge by my old Ch2 Manchurian, I would say with fair certainty, it will get a bit softer, but that gentle exfoliating scritch will never go away.

I need to say this whole writing is about a D01 2-band and not the 3-band. I Googled some images and reviews on the 3-band, and while I have never tried it, I would be inclined to believe it will never become as soft as silvertip either, and would always retain some scritch. I know this may sound strange, but I offer these images and I look forward to hearing what 3-band D01 owners think. Does this remind you of it at all, at least visually? If yes, then we can discuss further... because from what I’ve seen and read, this hair exhibits the same characteristis: softer overall, still a bit scritchy, stronger than true silvertips, rare and expensive, etc...

Not to be confused with true, premium silvertip 3-bands such as this, (hopefully) obviously different, even in appearance:

 

[mike_the_kraken]

...I Googled some images and reviews on the 3-band, and while I have never tried it, I would be inclined to believe it will never become as soft as silvertip either, and would always retain some scritch. I know this may sound strange, but I offer these images and I look forward to hearing what 3-band D01 owners think.

Googling images and making general assumptions won’t do. Just ask. The d01-3 band pictured here was dense, scrubby, and soft.

 

[celestino]

So.... To those who have them:
What do you think of yours?
Could you describe the tips as soft?
Do yours still exhibit high (relative I know) levels of scritch?
Have yours been consistent or do you think the batches differ??

I guess I'm just wondering if these brushes are simply "the Emporer's new clothes" and we buy them because they cost so much more money we just think they'll be "better"??? When in reality for most, they could be less enjoyable to use (unless you like scritch). Or... Whether some really do end up exhibiting the large levels of backbone AND soft tips that many of us were presumably hoping for?

Any thoughts/opinions welcomed.

Matt

I had tried 7 D01 2-Band knots in the past seven years before acquiring the recent three that I have.
I have noticed that batches can vary, but this hair type will always have quite a bit of scritch, initially, and the amount of scritch will be dependent on the shape of knot, knot size, and loft. You will never be able to avoid the initial scritch, but if you have the proper dimensions and shape, you'll find the scritch will be highly mitigated. Of course, everything I have said, so far, is dependent, also, on your skin and how it can tolerate irritation in any form. If you have sensitive skin and are prone to irritation, then you should not even consider this hair type. However, if you don't have sensitive skin, then with the proper dimensions in a fan-shaped knot and a breaking-in phase, then you can encounter a brush/knot that will be wonderful.

The three D01 2-Bands that I have, presently, vary greatly:
1. 36.5 x 60 mm Bulb = terribly scritchy with great backbone, but I enjoy the variety compared to my other soft 2-Bands. I am still hopeful that it will break in and soften even though I bought it second-hand. However, I am not hopeful that that will be any time in the next few years.
2. 35 x 60 mm Fan hybrid = perfect combination of backbone and scrub with a tiny bit of scritch. Just a superb knot to use, although all of my other knots are bulbs which are my preference. Again, I bought this second-hand, but it wasn't used much, so the breaking-in process was rather quick.
3. 34 x 53 mm Fan hybrid = This is the best of the three. It is an older knot, three years old, but it was only used a handful of times. The knot is extremely dense and possibly the densest one I have ever tried with incredible backbone, but with very, very soft tips, with excellent scrub. This is the knot that many have mentioned in the past about the D01 2-Band being soft and scrubby. Until I had received this knot, I had never experienced this.
This just might be the best knot I have ever tried in a shaving brush. However, I greatly enjoy all of my other brushes.

Again, batches will vary, but the newer ones that Bernd offers seem to be very consistent, so if you are contemplating trying another one, then you should consider getting a Fan-shaped knot with the proper dimensions.
Good luck to you and here are photos of the three brushes in their respective order as discussed above:

 

[Shaverrific666]

I had tried 5 D01 2-Band knots in the past seven years before acquire the recent three that I have.
I have noticed that batches can vary, but this hair type will always have quite a bit of scritch, initially, and the amount of scritch will be dependent on the shape of knot, knot size, and loft. You will never be able to avoid the initial scritch, but if you have the proper dimensions and shape, you'll find the scritch will be highly mitigated. Of course, everything I have said, so far, is dependent, also, on your skin and how it can tolerate irritation in any form. If you have sensitive skin and are prone to irritation, then you should not even consider this hair type. However, if you don't have sensitive skin, then with the proper dimensions in a fan-shaped knot and a breaking-in phase, then you can encounter a brush/knot that will be wonderful.

The three D01 2-Bands that I have, presently, vary greatly:
1. 36.5 x 60 mm Bulb = terribly scritchy with great backbone, but I enjoy the variety compared to my other soft 2-Bands. I am still hopeful that it will break in and soften even though I bought it second-hand. However, I am not hopeful that that will be any time in the next few years.
2. 35 x 60 mm Fan = perfect combination of backbone and scrub with a tiny bit of scritch. Just a superb knot to use, although all of my other knots are bulbs which are my preference. Again, I bought this second-hand, but it wasn't used much, so the breaking-in process was rather quick.
3. 34 x 53 mm Fan hybrid = This is the best of the three. It is an older knot, three years old, but it was only used a handful of times. The knot is extremely dense and possibly the densest one I have ever tried with incredible backbone, but with very, very soft tips, with excellent scrub. This is the knot that many have mentioned in the past about the D01 2-Band being soft and scrubby. Until I had received this knot, I had never experienced this.
This just might be the best knot I have ever tried in a shaving brush. However, I greatly enjoy all of my other brushes.

Again, batches will vary, but the newer ones that Bernd offers seem to be very consistent, so if you are contemplating trying another one, then you should consider getting a Fan-shaped knot with the proper dimensions.
Good luck to you and here are photos of the three brushes in their respective order as discussed above:

Very good post Celestino, and excellent pictures! Very helpful to me as well as the OP. I will be buying one in the next few months.Possibly a 26 or 28 fan...
the two I own presently are wonderful!

 

[celestino]

You are most welcome and it is great that you are enjoying your D01 2-Bands.

 

[MPH]

I had tried 7 D01 2-Band knots in the past seven years before acquiring the recent three that I have.
I have noticed that batches can vary, but this hair type will always have quite a bit of scritch, initially, and the amount of scritch will be dependent on the shape of knot, knot size, and loft. You will never be able to avoid the initial scritch, but if you have the proper dimensions and shape, you'll find the scritch will be highly mitigated. Of course, everything I have said, so far, is dependent, also, on your skin and how it can tolerate irritation in any form. If you have sensitive skin and are prone to irritation, then you should not even consider this hair type. However, if you don't have sensitive skin, then with the proper dimensions in a fan-shaped knot and a breaking-in phase, then you can encounter a brush/knot that will be wonderful.

The three D01 2-Bands that I have, presently, vary greatly:
1. 36.5 x 60 mm Bulb = terribly scritchy with great backbone, but I enjoy the variety compared to my other soft 2-Bands. I am still hopeful that it will break in and soften even though I bought it second-hand. However, I am not hopeful that that will be any time in the next few years.
2. 35 x 60 mm Fan hybrid = perfect combination of backbone and scrub with a tiny bit of scritch. Just a superb knot to use, although all of my other knots are bulbs which are my preference. Again, I bought this second-hand, but it wasn't used much, so the breaking-in process was rather quick.
3. 34 x 53 mm Fan hybrid = This is the best of the three. It is an older knot, three years old, but it was only used a handful of times. The knot is extremely dense and possibly the densest one I have ever tried with incredible backbone, but with very, very soft tips, with excellent scrub. This is the knot that many have mentioned in the past about the D01 2-Band being soft and scrubby. Until I had received this knot, I had never experienced this.
This just might be the best knot I have ever tried in a shaving brush. However, I greatly enjoy all of my other brushes.

Again, batches will vary, but the newer ones that Bernd offers seem to be very consistent, so if you are contemplating trying another one, then you should consider getting a Fan-shaped knot with the proper dimensions.
Good luck to you and here are photos of the three brushes in their respective order as discussed above:

Thank you for this. As I suspected then there are differences in batches and as such there is a degree of luck when buying as to which you will get.

This is unfortunate, as personally I'm not willing to spend that much to take a chance, but I will keep on with mine to see how much it will soften.

As already mentioned mine is fine if "painting' but currently too scritchy for me otherwise.

I'll report back if one day it just gives up and becomes soft as a cloud! Lol.

 

[N_Architect]

Googling images and making general assumptions won’t do. Just ask. The d01-3 band pictured here was dense, scrubby, and soft.

I assume you are not aware that the fellow member writing those lines (which you are referring to) is an enthusiast who selects, buys, ties and glues with his own hands the hair in the knots he makes. Knots such as the one showed in the three pictures (brown goldish ceramic handle) before the last photo in the above post.

My understanding is that while the specific fellow member still researches the subject and obviously looks to continuously enhance his experience with knots and brushes from well-known manufacturers such as Shavemac (hence asking questions in his post), we also have a lot to learn from him as well.

In addition, my impression is that his experience and communications he has so far had with badger hair suppliers has taught him a lot, and these are things (i.e. information) hardly available to non-professionals.

Bernd or Mark W. will never tell you that there are specific reasons why high quality rare three band hair has the best characteristics as compared to any other hair, and which in actual fact are those characteristics (e.g. hair shaft thickness, behavioral properties, etc.)

Owning a dozen of $200 Shavemacs and posting pictures of them does not make one an expert. Sometimes we all need to "just ask".

 

[MPH]

I have one currently. I tried another one a few years ago. Although my current knot is flat shaped, and the previous one was bulb, I would say this is the same hair and there was no batch variation (remember, 2 years apart).

Now for a more in-depth analysis.. and here are the two specimens (sorry about the Insta links, I don’t have these photos at hand anymore).

Flat top:
https://instagram.com/p/BfS5ARDFH8M/

Bulb:
https://instagram.com/p/BLzbHEzDwoz/


In appearance, I find this hair truly intriguing. To me it feels like best badger, but with a more brighter appearance of the yellow band, which overall creates a greater contrast between the bands. Very beautiful indeed, and very natural.

On hair strength and feel, I will say, the D01 in bulb shape felt very strong in general, and hence very scritchy. Unless you lathered up in a bowl and then applied the lather to face, this thing would give your face a real workout. My current D01 flat-shaped has a higher loft, so I find it overall a very versatile brush and one I truly enjoy. (Previous owner didn’t like it, which is fair enough) Admittedly, these two brushes could give an impression of being different, but in fact they are the same. Pressure here makes all the difference. If you use the same pressure, the brushes will appear different, due to the different shape and loft. However, if you adjust the pressure, you can make these two feel the same (tip feel on the face, strictly). So for example, I let my wife use it, and she described it as soft. This is not because she has the skin of a rhino, but it is because she wasn’t pushing on the brush at all. This is key in using D01 IMO and where its value lies - It gives you what you need. It can give you a real strong exfoliation, or a very gentle one. I confirmed this many times during face lathering.

As for others describing the knot, well... I read one guy say “it’s very soft, but not as soft as a 2-band silvertip which is super soft”. Once you start introducing adjectives like “super”, “ultra”, “uber” etc, the meaning of soft is gone. Yeah, it’s soft compared to my grill cleaner, too. :P (As a side note, we have the same issue in describing hardness of whetstones)

Comparing D01 to another 2-band only makes sense if the 2-band is a Simpson manchurian. Other two bands, such as finest, 2-band silvertips, or Shavemac’s 2-band Unique are completely different IMO, they are cloud-soft on the tips compared to D01. I am certain D01 will never become a 2-band silvertip, and I wouldn’t want it to! I haven’t had it for long enough to say for certain, but if I’m to judge by my old Ch2 Manchurian, I would say with fair certainty, it will get a bit softer, but that gentle exfoliating scritch will never go away.

I need to say this whole writing is about a D01 2-band and not the 3-band. I Googled some images and reviews on the 3-band, and while I have never tried it, I would be inclined to believe it will never become as soft as silvertip either, and would always retain some scritch. I know this may sound strange, but I offer these images and I look forward to hearing what 3-band D01 owners think. Does this remind you of it at all, at least visually? If yes, then we can discuss further... because from what I’ve seen and read, this hair exhibits the same characteristis: softer overall, still a bit scritchy, stronger than true silvertips, rare and expensive, etc...

Not to be confused with true, premium silvertip 3-bands such as this, (hopefully) obviously different, even in appearance:

Thanks for your response.

Just to complicate matters further you have mentioned something that is obvious, but I had neglected..... How you use the brush! It could well be that those us us who have issues with this hair maybe are just a little more heavy handed with it.....????

I have never tried a d01 3 band.... Maybe this would be a better option for some of us.

 

[Nishy]

Nice thread, some very interesting comments and opinions. I agree with @Britva on two points.

Firstly it is how you use the brush. DO1 2 bands are hand tied by Bernd then cut, then glued into the bore hole. These brushes are extra dense so treating them like a standard silvertip knot, whether that be 2 or 3 band will provide a rough face feel. I don't push the brush to splay widely on my face I just lather using the tips having loaded heavy. The extra backbone (higher density) is suffice IMO without having to press the brush. DO1 knots are also more prone to damage by pressing hard on the face forcing the base of the knot onto the face (info from Bernd).

Secondly superlatives are not clearly quantitative just relative to the individual's opinions. Also I am guilty of using the above, probably as I have no figures to provide just opinion.

So back to the OP, yes my D01 2 bands are not scratchy or scritchy, unless I force them to overly splay. I load heavy to avoid having to re-load from the puck, as the lather does stay at the tips. The knots are not soft or supple more stiff and regimented. I find the bulbs to feel slightly pointed and the fans to excel as the splay is more controlled.

I don't believe batch variance is apparent as a 'feel factor' amongst my DO1 brushes. Obviously size, loft and shape are more influential. My 3 band DO1 brush was initially quite prickly but has not softened at the tips. My DO1 knots all took around 20-30 uses to notice a significant change or for the knot to relax.

A level of density in-between standard and D01 2 band with a long white upper portion of hair would be my ideal.

 

[MPH]

A level of density in-between standard and D01 2 band with a long white upper portion of hair would be my ideal.

Yep. I suspect that would be his best seller too! Presumably there's a good reason why this is not possible....???? Otherwise that would seem like an ideal brush to me.

 

[Shaverrific666]

If anybody has any Shavemac D01 2 Bands that they don't get along with feel free to send them to me

 

[Britva]

My 3 band DO1 brush was initially quite prickly but has not softened at the tips. My DO1 knots all took around 20-30 uses to notice a significant change or for the knot to relax.

This is exactly what I was trying to get to. Relaxing the knot is one thing, tip feel is a separate issue. Thanks @Nishy.

I will come back here later with some more thoughts, when I have more time.

@N_Architect you bring up some good points, thank you! [emoji120]

 

[celestino]

@Britva, I should apologize as I believe you were inquiring about the D01 3-Band and not the 2-Band.
If you like, I can delete my post above as not to confuse things in your thread. Again, I apologize.

 

[Britva]

Googling images and making general assumptions won’t do. Just ask. The d01-3 band pictured here was dense, scrubby, and soft.

Appreciate the willingness to help.

For what it’s worth, when I want to show a knot through pictures, I usually do something like this:

Dry:

Damp shaken out:

Damp, wiped on a towel, and bloomed:

Apologies to the forum, I may have posted these pics in that other thread... anyway..

What I can say about the hair above is, it is not the softest silvertip in existence and in my experience, it will always retain a level of scrub and scritch at the tips, even after a year of use. It’s softer than a 2-band, but not nearly as soft as the other silvertip I posted above.

Pressure during use plays a major role here, which is why the overall experience is so subjective and cannot be easily quantified.

I don’t like applying pressure to a badger and generally avoid it at all costs, since I find it may lead to irreparable damage. Perhaps it’s OK to do it gently during the break-in period, but then decrease with each subsequent use. Who knows, maybe people are actually doing this, and so in time they perceive their D01s becoming softer and gentler. This currently makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Britva]

@Britva, I should apologize as I believe you were inquiring about the D01 3-Band and not the 2-Band.
If you like, I can delete my post above as not to confuse things in your thread. Again, I apologize.

Oh no, please don’t. The thread is in fact about 2-bands, I actually hijacked it with the 3-band talk... basically just trying to extend the conversation and the enigma [emoji6]