Pass arounds and unscrupulous members

[DamianJ]

Given the generosity of this forum I must admit to being very disappointed to hear members being taken advantage of. I've only taken part in a couple of pass arounds but each time looked after them, probably more than my own kit. Just goes to show that just because you yourself are honest not everyone has the same values. I'm hoping that this doesn't tarnish the rest of the many gentlemen on this forum.

 

[SeanC]

Short of handing the item over yourself a next day signed for service is the best you are going to get, there is no other way around it when posting stuff, things happen. Now if I sent an item and you insisted it has not arrived and the signature is fraudulent I'd be more inclined to believe you then someone called Billy Big Shave from Ecuador with 4 weeks membership and 12 posts which mainly consist of "I agree"
I know it is difficult to ask for a deposit on high cost items but if it is insured by the sender (As is required in the terms of most passarounds) but it shouldn't be posted to an office or place of work, it should go to a real address, if you miss it you go collect it from the sorting office, If you are called Mr Smith and Miss jones signs for it then it is the Lenders fault for not ensuring this cannot happen. If you put £100 deposit down it should discourage a lot of those kind of people from getting involved, they only want to nick the free stuff.
Believe me there is someone out there on almost every forum just waiting to get their mitts on a high cost SS razor or brush and then disappearing, never to be seen again.

Partially agree...

Yes there should indeed be a stringent cut-off in terms of posts / membership period for pass-around items and as the level of risk is higher than BST (unless F&F is used for the latter which is a calculated risk).

From a legal perspective, when it's signed-for and left at the specified address i.e. not in a neighbours bin, it's received. Totally binary.

Receivers specify the address for delivery. If they specify somewhere which isn't secure then they carry the loss. Again totally binary for me; it's called using a bit of common sense. If you don't have a secure address then either accept the risk or don't partake. But it's wrong to generalise about what a secure address is. I live in a conversion flat with a shared external letterbox. Neighbours can and do sign for deliveries. As far as I know each of the four other flats are honest; but do I know for certain? No. Whereas if I get deliveries at work they are properly booked into the mailroom and I have to again sign for them when they are delivered to my desk. 100% trackable from start to finish. Bearing these facts in mind, I of course opt for the latter option.

 

[MPH]

So sorry to hear there have been issues. Especially to someone who has been so kind to loan their razor. :-(

To be honest though there's potentially more than just problems with "newbies" and items going missing with pass arounds.... What about if an item is slightly damaged, potentially by an experienced user... Maybe without even realising it? It can happen as I have experience of this.

Limiting pass around to exclude very new members would hopefully get rid of blatantly untrustworthy people, but other things can still happen.

 

[Xring3]

Just my 2 cents worth. Other forums have a pay it forward program. I’ve sent some reloading dies, car parts and other extra things I wasn’t using to other members. They pay the shipping and then list an item for other members to claim. No sore feelings and you pass things around. Just a thought.

 

[Batch300]

If I recall, two problems were 1) no box 2) poor condition / not cleaned. 3rd issue was unanswered emails.

Since the razor & box were in the postal system over 25 times, I could understand box damage. Polite response would be to explain any damage or "I lost the box" email. The box for a vintage razor is valuable.

Post a picture of the razor and box in first thread. Maybe even include with the pass-around. Any deviations requested to be reported.

 

[Blackie]

Although a newbie to this forum (but been a wet shaver for 50+ years) I like the idea of no pifs or pass-arounds to new members until they have a minimum time spent on the forum (including posting meaningful threads, etc). Use the current BST rules. They seem to work OK.
Re the sending on to the next person...what do you do if the Postal Service cocks it all up?
Here's what USPS did to me (so if this happened to a pass-around sender and the item was damaged/lost who pays the original owner? Tuff bikkies for him?).

https://paste-and-cut.com.au/community/threads/new-aristocrat-arrived-sort-of.5760/

In this case USPS said "Sod off, too bad, it was only sent as First Class mail...no insurance".
Geez, if that's First Class mail I'd hate to see what 3rd Class mail would arrive like.
Edit: Have to agree with the point made about newby folks not having the experience yet to make it worth while sending them a Fatboy, or a NEW SC for instance. They aren't yet in a position to actually know if they are using it right or wrong. Maybe pass_around or pifs of blades and soaps only to new members? When they have a years experience they can get hold of a Fatboy, Slim, Rex Ambassador, Timeless, etc from a pass-around and they will know if it's right for them.

 

[Blademonkey]

Although a newbie to this forum (but been a wet shaver for 50+ years) I like the idea of no pifs or pass-arounds to new members until they have a minimum time spent on the forum (including posting meaningful threads, etc). Use the current BST rules. They seem to work OK.
Re the sending on to the next person...what do you do if the Postal Service cocks it all up?
Here's what USPS did to me (so if this happened to a pass-around sender and the item was damaged/lost who pays the original owner? Tuff bikkies for him?).

https://paste-and-cut.com.au/community/threads/new-aristocrat-arrived-sort-of.5760/

In this case USPS said "Sod off, too bad, it was only sent as First Class mail...no insurance".
Geez, if that's First Class mail I'd hate to see what 3rd Class mail would arrive like.
Edit: Have to agree with the point made about newby folks not having the experience yet to make it worth while sending them a Fatboy, or a NEW SC for instance. They aren't yet in a position to actually know if they are using it right or wrong. Maybe pass_around or pifs of blades and soaps only to new members? When they have a years experience they can get hold of a Fatboy, Slim, Rex Ambassador, Timeless, etc from a pass-around and they will know if it's right for them.

When sending a pass-around razor on we use a Special delivery service that is insured to cover the full cost of the razor should it go missing or get damaged, if the person sending the razor forward decides not to use this service and it goes wrong then he is responsible for any loss or damage. It is only fair. When sending razors I have sold I will also use a next day special delivery if the razors are worth more than £50.00 otherwise I will send by standard recorded delivery which covers goods up to the value of £50.00. So even if the postal service cocks it up you will be covered if you use the right service. P.

 

[Wayne]

So sorry to hear there have been issues. Especially to someone who has been so kind to loan their razor. :-(

To be honest though there's potentially more than just problems with "newbies" and items going missing with pass arounds.... What about if an item is slightly damaged, potentially by an experienced user... Maybe without even realising it? It can happen as I have experience of this.

Limiting pass around to exclude very new members would hopefully get rid of blatantly untrustworthy people, but other things can still happen.

Agreed but if an experienced user has a mishap with something loaned to them they are more likely to hold up their hands and admit they have had an accident and offer to pay to replace the item borrowed. Not 100% guaranteed of course but more likely.

 

[Wayne]

Although a newbie to this forum (but been a wet shaver for 50+ years) I like the idea of no pifs or pass-arounds to new members until they have a minimum time spent on the forum (including posting meaningful threads, etc). Use the current BST rules. They seem to work OK.
Re the sending on to the next person...what do you do if the Postal Service cocks it all up?
Here's what USPS did to me (so if this happened to a pass-around sender and the item was damaged/lost who pays the original owner? Tuff bikkies for him?).

https://paste-and-cut.com.au/community/threads/new-aristocrat-arrived-sort-of.5760/

In this case USPS said "Sod off, too bad, it was only sent as First Class mail...no insurance".
Geez, if that's First Class mail I'd hate to see what 3rd Class mail would arrive like.
Edit: Have to agree with the point made about newby folks not having the experience yet to make it worth while sending them a Fatboy, or a NEW SC for instance. They aren't yet in a position to actually know if they are using it right or wrong. Maybe pass_around or pifs of blades and soaps only to new members? When they have a years experience they can get hold of a Fatboy, Slim, Rex Ambassador, Timeless, etc from a pass-around and they will know if it's right for them.

The forum Mods tend to ask for next day by 1pm signed for service within the UK. It is insured up to £500 as standard and usually pays out if an item does go missing or is damaged with no problem. Bomb proof packaging helps a lot, if you think you have enough bubble wrap then double it, if a postie can drop kick the package they will, it has to be able to withstand rough handling. Overseas post is a minefield, you are then dealing with the issue of couriers and a lack of real acountability and of course hold ups in customs which in itself is a nightmare when after 3 days a recipient screams foul or lost or where is it? the sender has zero power to influence any of this of course.

 

[MPF9]

When sending a pass-around razor on we use a Special delivery service that is insured to cover the full cost of the razor should it go missing or get damaged, if the person sending the razor forward decides not to use this service and it goes wrong then he is responsible for any loss or damage. It is only fair. When sending razors I have sold I will also use a next day special delivery if the razors are worth more than £50.00 otherwise I will send by standard recorded delivery which covers goods up to the value of £50.00. So even if the postal service cocks it up you will be covered if you use the right service. P.

I have not done any Forum pass arounds, but have had and made loans to others and all has gone well - but those involved were well established
members. I have been offered the loan of some High End Razors, but have declined as it is unlikely that I will purchase my own and do not need the temptation. It is good to have simple rules as outlined above.