ajc347
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I would argue that if you choose not to insure it (or under insure it) then you take 100% of the risk if it goes missing.
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Package stolen or lost
- Thread starter YomD
- Start date
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Lann
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First, I am really sorry to hear that this happened to you Yohann. Second, for anyone perhaps reading this thread, who hasn't had any direct dealings with Yohann, while I don't know him personally, I have had quite a few transactions here on BST with him. On each and every occasion he has been polite fair, honest and trusting and all our transactions have been carried out in the correct manner with proper declarations on the relevant forms. So I am happy to vouch that this is not someone who is prone to acting in a wanting his cake and eating it type way.
While the ultimate blame lies with whomever stole the parcel, the responsibility for undervaluing the item being sent in order to save on the cost of postage is that of the seller. By not agreeing to do this with Yohann's knowledge and full agreement makes the seller's it's not my fault stance void because he has, by his actions prevented any chance of claiming back the full value of the item even if it is proven to have been stolen. That fact alone would be enough for me to issue a full refund but from my reading of the thread to not want to enter into some discussion with Johann to try and reach a shared solution given the circumstances is where his frustration lies most.
Also the whole I don't know how to use friends and family excuse is just pathetic!I
I have sold hundreds of items internationally on Ebay. The most I have paid out in postage to cover the proper cost of an item in the event it went missing was £68.50. I charged the buyer the £12.50 international tracked and signed service. Yes I took a bit of a hit in terms of my profit margin but it was peace of mind and a lot less than I would have lost had I made a less than accurate declaration of value and the package went missing. My advice to everyone is for anything, especially higher cost items, to make sure you cover all the bases both as a seller and a buyer. A few extra pounds of PayPal fees or postage charges is worth it if you are both covered in the event that something like this happens.
While the ultimate blame lies with whomever stole the parcel, the responsibility for undervaluing the item being sent in order to save on the cost of postage is that of the seller. By not agreeing to do this with Yohann's knowledge and full agreement makes the seller's it's not my fault stance void because he has, by his actions prevented any chance of claiming back the full value of the item even if it is proven to have been stolen. That fact alone would be enough for me to issue a full refund but from my reading of the thread to not want to enter into some discussion with Johann to try and reach a shared solution given the circumstances is where his frustration lies most.
Also the whole I don't know how to use friends and family excuse is just pathetic!I
I have sold hundreds of items internationally on Ebay. The most I have paid out in postage to cover the proper cost of an item in the event it went missing was £68.50. I charged the buyer the £12.50 international tracked and signed service. Yes I took a bit of a hit in terms of my profit margin but it was peace of mind and a lot less than I would have lost had I made a less than accurate declaration of value and the package went missing. My advice to everyone is for anything, especially higher cost items, to make sure you cover all the bases both as a seller and a buyer. A few extra pounds of PayPal fees or postage charges is worth it if you are both covered in the event that something like this happens.
Lann
Forum GOD!
My understanding is - UK law wise anyway - that only applies if permission has been given by the buyer for a neighbour to sign on and take responsibility of a parcel on their behalf. If not, the vendor can still be pursued for compensation due to breach of contract as the parcel can still be considered undelivered to the expected recipient as the initial contract is between the buyer and the seller not the third party delivery service. That is where delivery insurance would kick in for the benefit of the seller as their contract is for the safe delivery of the item to the addressed person up to the declared value of the item made at the point of postage. If the item can be proven to not to have been received by the intended recipient for example through proof of a usual signature the seller can pursue compensation from the delivery company because they did not fulfil their contact with the seller.
It is definitely a grey area and not just as straightforward as the seller can prove it was signed for and delivered because in this case it wasn't delivered to the intended recipient or a pre approved representative. Of course different countries have different legislation in place so there may be different legal rights at play.
It is definitely a grey area and not just as straightforward as the seller can prove it was signed for and delivered because in this case it wasn't delivered to the intended recipient or a pre approved representative. Of course different countries have different legislation in place so there may be different legal rights at play.
YomD
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When I contacted Chronopost they asked me to send a copy of my passport to compare signatures and a copy of the police report.
Signatures are different, the seller will be refunded the amount declared.
If I don’t go to the police the seller won’t be refunded
And there is no authorization possible for a neighbour here in France.
I have also received in my mailbox some packages that required signatures and I never signed for them. I’ve checked several times the proof of delivery and my first name or family name was written as signature
Signatures are different, the seller will be refunded the amount declared.
If I don’t go to the police the seller won’t be refunded
And there is no authorization possible for a neighbour here in France.
I have also received in my mailbox some packages that required signatures and I never signed for them. I’ve checked several times the proof of delivery and my first name or family name was written as signature
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halvor
a most elusive fish
Sorry to hear of your trouble, Yohann. I would be inclined to say it’s not wholly on the seller. Having agreed to f&f makes it go from a transaction with buyer’s rights to a gentlemen’s agreement. I’m assuming this was sent from outside the EU, otherwise what reason to lowball declared value? Or does it make a difference in terms of postage and insurance? At any rate, both seller and buyer would be wise to make explicit all needs, wishes and details, so one is on same terms. Something to learn in this for everyone, sadly at your expense.
FWIW, I’ve often, prior to sending, stated a 50-50 liability in case of loss of parcel (using untracked, but that's beside the point) and think that is fair. Unsure what I think would be fair in this case, as in who is responsible for it once actually signed for and delivered, which in principle means it is out of the hands of the seller, but seller should clearly have asked about value declaration before shipping.
FWIW, I’ve often, prior to sending, stated a 50-50 liability in case of loss of parcel (using untracked, but that's beside the point) and think that is fair. Unsure what I think would be fair in this case, as in who is responsible for it once actually signed for and delivered, which in principle means it is out of the hands of the seller, but seller should clearly have asked about value declaration before shipping.
Lann
Forum GOD!
That makes sense to me Johann. The signature on your passport proves that you as the intended recipient did not sign for the parcel and by reporting to the police you are making an official complaint of fraud and theft which technically the police should investigate. How much time and effort they will spend doing so is a different matter. Nonetheless that process is enough for Chonopost to recognise that they, as a service, are in breach of their contract with the seller to the amount declared which he should receive back at some point. Whether he passes half that amount back to you is dependent on him.
The fact that there is no process in place to nominate a representative and the fact that someone has signed for parcels in order to not have to make a re-delivery makes a correct declaration of item cost by the seller a must.
Again though, I am just sorry this happened to you Yohann.
The fact that there is no process in place to nominate a representative and the fact that someone has signed for parcels in order to not have to make a re-delivery makes a correct declaration of item cost by the seller a must.
Again though, I am just sorry this happened to you Yohann.
Wayne
Forum Sod
I can see nothing the seller has done wrong apart from under stating the actual value. He packed it, sent it and had a tracking number. He trusted the postal service to do what they are paid for and either one of the employee's in the chain or someone at the buyers end has stolen the item. The fault is firmly with which ever piece of scum stole the item and whoever falsly signed the package. Obviously I sympathise with the buyer, it is an awful place to be, out of pocket and with no razor but I fail to see what more the seller could have done.
struttura.originaria
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YomD
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Many thanks for your kinds words Gentlemen!
Things are solved and it’s already almost forgotten.
I went to the Police station this morning but reports are only from Monday to Friday for this kind of issue so i have to go back and lose again 2 hours for nothing. Anyway...
Package is coming outside of the EU but from what I’ve experienced French customs are focused on US packages. I never ask anything about customs form for something coming from elsewhere.
It was clearly a gentleman agreement as with almost all my transactions
The seller could not do anything else indeed, except about the value.
I know he is losing money and would be upset in such situation. I was totally ready to share it.
Everything changed however when I received his answer saying I’m not responsible and I have lowered customs form. Gentleman attitude was gone...
The lesson is risk of loss and insurance must be discussed and stated clearly
Things are solved and it’s already almost forgotten.
I went to the Police station this morning but reports are only from Monday to Friday for this kind of issue so i have to go back and lose again 2 hours for nothing. Anyway...
Package is coming outside of the EU but from what I’ve experienced French customs are focused on US packages. I never ask anything about customs form for something coming from elsewhere.
It was clearly a gentleman agreement as with almost all my transactions
The seller could not do anything else indeed, except about the value.
I know he is losing money and would be upset in such situation. I was totally ready to share it.
Everything changed however when I received his answer saying I’m not responsible and I have lowered customs form. Gentleman attitude was gone...
The lesson is risk of loss and insurance must be discussed and stated clearly
Lann
Forum GOD!
You are right Wayne the person who stole the razor is to blame. Unfortunately, had the seller made a correct declaration at the time of postage - yes he would have had to pay more of an initial postage cost, but would have, in turn, received a full refund of the cost of the item. He could then have made a full refund to Yohann of the amount sent through Paypal with neither being out of pocket to the extent they are now - financially at least.
One thing for certain is that whoever stole the razor, actually stole from both buyer and seller, but they don't give a poop. I hope Karma bites them in the ass at some point soon.
One thing for certain is that whoever stole the razor, actually stole from both buyer and seller, but they don't give a poop. I hope Karma bites them in the ass at some point soon.
Dr Watson
James
Wow, I missed this thread somehow.
Really sorry to read of your experience YomD, many good points have already been made but the kicker for me is the fact Mr seller did not insure it for the correct value - Had you specifically requested this then I would understand his reluctance to help you but if I have read correctly he made this decision alone, without confirming with you... As such, for me the seller is responsible and should have given you a full refund.
Really sorry to read of your experience YomD, many good points have already been made but the kicker for me is the fact Mr seller did not insure it for the correct value - Had you specifically requested this then I would understand his reluctance to help you but if I have read correctly he made this decision alone, without confirming with you... As such, for me the seller is responsible and should have given you a full refund.
Northam Saint
Forum GOD!
Was there a need to dumb down the value, if it was from one European country to another ? If it wasn’t then what are the French duties and taxes on imports ?