ATG is growing, Vendor & Member Info & Discussion

[Deleted member 30]

I agree Fox and I'm grateful for the work done to promote ATG I haven't discredited that ever. In the same light I'm sure ATG has brought yourself business, visitors and income.

It has and I appreciate that we are a community that is working in synergy. But when the balance appears to be out then situations like this arise. Which is why we are at this juncture now. It is not for me to say where or what happens, I can only air my feelings and that is what I am doing.

This is not directed at you personally Nishy but as Wayne pointed out. One minute you had more than enough funds and was talking about donating the excess too. Then today you approach vendors to charge fees on top of donations. I have no gripe with the vendor fees, its the principal that you took donations made announcement that you had covered the fees and then introduce vendor fees on top. Like Wayne said, it don't add up.

 

[Deleted member 30]

@Blackland Razors your posting words but saying nothing dude.

 

[Blackland Razors]

@Blackland Razors your posting words but saying nothing dude.

Then we have more in common than I thought.

Seriously though, everything you’ve said I pretty much agree with (and have posted as much). The difference is calling Nishy a rat. I just think that sucks.

 

[Wayne]

I don’t at all mind a forum being a profitable venture. However, I don’t particularly love the plead for donations to keep the lights on followed by a new charge for vendors and potentially a membership fee. We have around 20 vendors as far as I can tell which should generate about £2k/year. So if the recent donations covered two full years where is that extra 4k going through 2021? And why ask for donations at all when that 2k vendor fee would surely cover forum costs? Finally, if we have two years already covered plus an additional 2k/yr from vendors, why would there ever need to be a membership fee?

Again, I’m in complete support of raising money to keep this place going and I don’t even mind if that extra money is taken as profit. But I think this payment rollout could have been planned better and I think a bit of transparency would go a long way. I don’t think members should have been asked to donate.

Edit: I don’t feel comfortable being a paid vendor until I know that members won’t have to pay a membership fee. This place will crumple like a napkin if you start charging members.

Shane, no one was asked to donate. The members came up with the idea of donating to support the forum.

I was just asking the question regarding member fees, not something I am necessarily going to implicate. I just wanted to know where members stood. If we have an IT issue that we can't resolve the server owner charges per hour, in addition our costs have risen by about 150% over the last two years. Furthermore were going to have to increase our storage therefore server costs soon. It really is just being proactive and guaging costs.

As mentioned before I'm not looking to milk anyone or make a quick buck, I would happily give any extra to charity as mentioned before and as previously conducted. Again no need for mass panic it is being kept as a float.

Honestly, I am not happy for any extra to be given to charity. The money was given freely for the forums use

Then we have more in common than I thought.

Seriously though, everything you’ve said I pretty much agree with (and have posted as much). The difference is calling Nishy a rat. I just think that sucks.

Chaps. Come on, calm please. No need for any falling out. We ALL have the forums best interests at heart so let's cool it and chill please. No one wants to say anything they will regret. Time out!

 

[Deleted member 30]

Then we have more in common than I thought.

Seriously though, everything you’ve said I pretty much agree with (and have posted as much). The difference is calling Nishy a rat. I just think that sucks.

No, I said; "I smell a rat". Don't take my words and rearrange them. That is not a nice thing to do. "Smelling a rat" is an English term for saying that something dont add up, that there are inconsistencies with what we are being told by Nishy.

I have too much respect for Nishy to call him anything negative, and I think he knows this. If not he does now.

 

[Nishy]

It has and I appreciate that we are a community that is working in synergy. But when the balance appears to be out then situations like this arise. Which is why we are at this juncture now. It is not for me to say where or what happens, I can only air my feelings and that is what I am doing.

This is not directed at you personally Nishy but as Wayne pointed out. One minute you had more than enough funds and was talking about donating the excess too. Then today you approach vendors to charge fees on top of donations. I have no gripe with the vendor fees, its the principal that you took donations made announcement that you had covered the fees and then introduce vendor fees on top. Like Wayne said, it don't add up.

I fully understand your stance Darron and as you know I'm a person of good character. Now the issue arises when our fees have risen by approx150% over the last 2 years. I do not know when our server may want to increase fees again also I am aware that we will be requiring more storage very soon. We can go down several routes to increase storage but ideally I don't want to put any further work (predominantly on Lee) I know the mods able to do so will comply but I don't think it's fair to keep asking. If I ask the server guy to sort out this he charges by the hour. In essence I don't know what the future costs will be but I want to be in a position where they are covered for the foreseeable future.

As always I'm happy for anyone to air their opinions, I could have just made a decision and let members suffer but it's not my style, hence the open thread.

In light of airing opinions, you agreed initially to the vendor fee earlier in the thread, which turned to smelling a rat and then to wanting to start your own forum. I'm just calling it as it is. I run the forum in terms of costs so any notion of a rat I felt was directed at me. But words can be misinterpreted and I appreciate the clarification. At the end of the day I apologise if I have made a mistake, we are only human and it's unlike any other venture I've run. But having run this site for 3 years without issue whilst aiding yourself and others, I would have appreciated greater respect, if the rat comment was directed at myself. Mem mentioned vendors should have been messaged privately regarding fees, that is what I did. Members suggested donations, that is what I did. Any funds received I have published. I don't feel I have drawn the curtains over anyone's eyes

 

[Blackland Razors]

Smelling a rat when only one person is being looked at suspiciously is pretty much calling that person a rat. But hey, carry on. I’ve said my piece.

 

[Deleted member 30]

Smelling a rat when only one person is being looked at suspiciously is pretty much calling that person a rat. But hey, carry on. I’ve said my piece.

You have said your piece, thank you. It was such an enlightenment.

 

[Deleted member 30]

I fully understand your stance Darron and as you know I'm a person of good character. Now the issue arises when our fees have risen by approx150% over the last 2 years. I do not know when our server may want to increase fees again also I am aware that we will be requiring more storage very soon. We can go down several routes to increase storage but ideally I don't want to put any further work (predominantly on Lee) I know the mods able to do so will comply but I don't think it's fair to keep asking. If I ask the server guy to sort out this he charges by the hour. In essence I don't know what the future costs will be but I want to be in a position where they are covered for the foreseeable future.

As always I'm happy for anyone to air their opinions, I could have just made a decision and let members suffer but it's not my style, hence the open thread.

In light of airing opinions, you agreed initially to the vendor fee earlier in the thread, which turned to smelling a rat and then to wanting to start your own forum. I'm just calling it as it is. I run the forum in terms of costs so any notion of a rat I felt was directed at me. But words can be misinterpreted and I appreciate the clarification. At the end of the day I apologise if I have made a mistake, we are only human and it's unlike any other venture I've run. But having run this site for 3 years without issue whilst aiding yourself and others, I would have appreciated greater respect, if the rat comment was directed at myself. Mem mentioned vendors should have been messaged privately regarding fees, that is what I did. Members suggested donations, that is what I did. Any funds received I have published. I don't feel I have drawn the curtains over anyone's eyes

@Nishy you don't need to apoligise, there is nothing to apoligise for. I said that because I felt strongly about the inconstancy in what you told us. If anything, and looking back it was a childish thing for me to of said, and think it is me who owes you an apology. I am sorry.

OK so maybe a bit more info about what type of server hosting the ATG is on atm? I do know a fair bit about hosting myself and I'm sure there are some other members who have knowledge in this field. I'm sure between us we can and will resolve this. Why is the hosting fees increased so much in such a small space of time? I am using tsohost and their prices have been fixed since I have been with them over 5 years, they even remained the same when they were taken over by tso recently.

Again I am sincerely sorry for being abrupt and absurd with my "starting a forum" statement, though it did feel rather thrilling at the time of pushing send.

 

[Wayne]

Now the issue arises when our fees have risen by approx150% over the last 2 years. I do not know when our server may want to increase fees again also I am aware that we will be requiring more storage very soon.

I fully understand the issues raised regarding the price hike but that is why some of the members covered these costs and more for the next two years and honestly I think if needed they will do again. @SeanC has offered to do the books for you for free, that is an offer that can't be ignored surely? Who get's offers from professionals like that everyday? So correct me if I am wrong Nishy, you are now secure money wise and have an offer of free accounting and I'm happy to pledge my support in any way I can in future in the way of donations as and when needed, I'm certain others are too. In the grand scheme of things the forum is about as future proofed as it can be.

 

[Nishy]

No stress guys, let's just move on from this. Thanks Darron for the apology, I'm glad we have a relationship that isn't just about one individual. @Wayne I have my own accountants which I am using and also use for my business so fine at the moment. @SeanC thank you from the bottom of my heart it is an offer that I may take up at some point if that is ok with you. All figures I'm happy to publish on the site as well for complete transparency. Just got home so going to have some dinner then relax, hope everyone has a good evening.

 

[DamianJ]

I think some clarity may help diffuse the situation. Having costs etc shared, as Nishy has said he will do, will help members see where things are going and what is needed.

I think the membership should be able to have a say in the direction and running of the forum, but ultimately the mod team will decide. I hope that the spirit of the forum is allowed to continue, after all its a great place.

I'm not sure how vendors fees or contributions work under the current scheme, but either as members, vendors or both they should also have a say. The vendors do a great job in supporting the forum with group buys etc and the forum is better for these.

Vendors should contribute in some way, either fees, or group buys, as they will benefit also. The question arises in terms of how much the fees and contributions should be.

I think any changes etc should not be rushed into and all sides and options considered, after all, we have 2 years funding from the recent donations.

Possibly collating all options and allowing free discussion and potentially a poll might not be a bad idea.

 

[sɐǝɹpu∀]

Chaps had a meeting with my accountant earlier today, it seems likely that I will have to set ATG up as a company in the near future, this is for tax reasons and longevity.

What I wanted to guage is if a monthly fee of around £2.50 for members were to be introduced would this be a deal breaker for those who use the site?

Just to emphasise the question is just to better understand future options and not definite. Thank you.

This is a Bad Idea™

 

[The Gentleman]

Let's keep this forum the best wetshaving forum and not go the same path as some of the others. This is my favourite place to be when I'm not in the real world and I want it to be this way in the future too. I have donated money, and I will donate more if/when needed. I'm with @Wayne on this. And I want the vendors to be a active part of the forum as members (like @Fox, for instance) and not like "vendors". Maybe we get some discount sometimes, maybe not. I believe we are enough "core members" to keep this forum running, so it's better that Nishy calls for help when needed.

I hope this rambling in my second language makes any sense

 

[MPH]

You know, this whole thing to me shows how much so many people care about this forum, which although "right now" is causing a small degree of conflict, but can only be good for our long term future providing no one over reacts.

I also can't help but think if this were a local club everything would have been thrashed out over a pint in 5 minutes..... The biggest problem here is just we are discussing online where text can be taken in different ways easily.

One thing seems certain though..... Our 4 mods currently appear to be only 2 which is not fair on them, however there appears to be many people who are willing to help, so maybe it's time to bring others in to lighten the load?

Either way..... Love you guys!!!!