Ask the Artisan!

[Hone]

OK then, why was the first Hone made from brass? Some would argue that this is a "polarising" material and so may dampen sales? On the other hand where is the "stainless" version that I am sure would sell in bucket loads.

Nice question. I knew brass was going to be divisive while I was working on the design. But there are some practical reasons, and some more circumstantial reasons why I chose to make brass first.

The circumstantial reasons were the main drivers. I had been working on some very disposable products before deciding to make my own and developing Hone. I also knew that at the scale I would be working at I couldn't make a razor for £20. At my viable price point people purchasing my razor would be those who were very interested in razors and DE shaving in general. A Hone razor was unlikely to be their first razor and they might be looking for something that could be a new experience. But it also had to last for that price, not just be a gimmick; In this context I felt brass would be understood as a material that was not only traditional for shaving, but that also would change and not look perfect forever, unless you took the time to clean it yourself, at which point it becomes 'yours' But in the same breath that wasn't necessary, and it would still age well. I figured the shaving community would understand even if it wasn't their preference, but either way I was happy. I knew making the perfect razor was a fools errand .

I also liked that this was a novel material choice at the time in 2014. I romanticised in my own mind the idea of a product that could be passed on, and that didn’t look like anything. I hoped that it would catch your eye and stand out in memory if someone you knew had one. I had recently inherited a fountain pen (nothing fancy just a generic one, but that didn't matter to me). I had purchased some new parts for it and re-commissioned it (I use it everyday now). I felt quite strongly that this was exactly what I wanted to make for my own product. Something you could find forgotten in the bottom of a box in 50 years. Clean up. And it would work immediately. And if you needed new parts you could track them down (my spares for life promise). Brass was also a great fit for this.

The practical decision to stick to brass came about because of the compound surfaces on the underside of the razor head. I could have simplified this dramatically making it flat, or turn-able in one axis. But the design was the purest overall form, hiding its complexity and reflecting my ideals of minimal but still with character. And it was unique! So I wasn't willing to compromise for production having seen how that can undermine a product. Casting would have made sense, but I didn't like the feel of cast parts. And post machining a cast part risks finding a void in the casting just under the surface and a very high yield (plus I didn't have the money to afford casting). So it was CNC all the way, which made brass a great choice. Holding onto this part for machining accurately is… tough. And machining this to match the other parts is also a challenge. Brass is very forgiving in this regard.

Which leads onto the stainless steel version... I have explored this extensively. I have made multiple prototypes, some of which were tested by people on this forum . And at the end of 2018 I actually put a stainless steel razor into production, after many 100's of samples and meetings with multiple different factories and places to narrow down where to have it made. Unfortunately the manufacturer I ended up working with struggled with the form of the razor in this material. Stainless is a tough cookie. They weren't able to consistently deliver the parts to match the quality report or tolerances for the part specs, Despite the planning and testing and working with them. And almost a year after paying for the production run (in full) I had make the tough decision that they were not going to deliver, and had to stop the project and discuss the next steps with them which is still ongoing. It has been quite a costly learning opportunity and has really hampered my growth and plans for other products in my lineup. All of which had to be put on hold to cover the cost of this. It was almost the end of Hone, so I have been in recovery mode since. But I do plan to re-visit a stainless version for sure.

 

[Hone]

Thank you for posting, your response has motivated me to consider your razor. If your time allows, a few questions, (1) did you secure feedback from others when tweaking the design (2) will you consider offering different base plates (3) was it worth it?

Time always allows … Time for a long answer haha.

Certainly, in almost every phase I have got feedback from unbiased sources. When I was developing the Hone razor I was reaching out to people posting youtube videos about shaving (in 2013/2014 I think this was just becoming a trend, now it seems to be the norm to try to find an 'influencer’ to promote your product. But I was just interested in their feedback at the time. Some of the bigger names this space now had input into the razor. I’m not even sure the phrase influencer had been coined then! I have also used pass arounds and private and public groups in forums for testing and feedback. The type 15 did receive an updated cap design based on community feedback. I adjusted it for the aluminum version and retro-actively applied that adjustment to the brass edition quite soon after launching based on the input. And the handle length is an ongoing development loop, I’m not sure science can answer what the right handle length is .

I am envious of razors that can use different base plates. I would need to test more to be 100% sure but I think unfortunately the geometry and relationship of the cap and the head on the Type 15, and how I made the geometry work means this would be hard to achieve with this razor. If I had the thought from the start that might have been possible. But I don't think I can add it now.

This is a great question… And for me it has a mixed answer.

Version a) Yes it was worth it, I love what I do. And I enjoy trying to make the business work, and working with other small companies and business. I love the range of skills it demands of me. And I am proud of the product, and I want to push it further and do more. I learn something everyday it feels like, and despite that being an overused cliché it's all true.

Version b) I still work a full time job alongside Hone, and that isn't all Hone's fault. I am stubborn that I want to do things the "right" way (whatever that means!?) even if the result is that it isn't always the most financially viable way. I do this so that I don't regret things in future years, be that how I work with manufacturers, or how I deal with customers, or the choices on the product itself. There have also been external setbacks with manufacturers, or other things that make it tough to regroup and see a way forward. And I want to grow the business sustainably which means it covers its own costs, this can make things slow, and means my time and investment is often unpaid.

I guess… that’s not really versions - more two sides of the same coin which should be expected I guess. But either way, yes it was worth it.

 

[ESBrushmaker]

Apologies, Gents! Just discovered this thread. So, to try to answer some of your questions, let me start by stating some core convictions: I believe THE most important characteristic of any maker--artisan, commercial, or hobbyist--is for the designer/maker to always be a student of his own work, to NEVER be completely satisfied, to ALWAYS look for ways to improve his own work. That out of my system...

• What led you into making shaving items? Why did I start making my own shaving items? Short answer to both questions: I'd been turning wood, teaching and demonstrating wood turning professionally for a number of years and basically fell into shaving brushes as another creative outlet. Once there, I was hooked--always trying to "create a better mousetrap" if you will.
• Do you use your own products? Yes! Of course! Absolutely! What better way to test them over the long haul--to discover not only what's good, but what can be done to make them better? If a product doesn't satisfy me over the long term, how can I expect it to satisfy anyone else?
• Do I use my own products exclusively? Nope. I use other makers' brushes to: (a) learn how others' brushes are made, (b) identify relative strengths and weaknesses (fit & finish, etc.) in their work, and (c) to (hopefully) be better equipped to answer customers' (and prospective customers') questions.
• What other artisan's products to I rate very highly?
  • Max Sprecher's and Tim Zowada's straight razors are at the top of my list. These men are not only incredibly accomplished, but they're constantly looking for ways to make their work even better.
  • Wickham's 1912 shave soaps (especially Russian Leather and Scottish Heather). Amazing.
  • Tony Miller's strops
  • Brushes? Here I need to be careful lest I get myself into trouble. (For that reason, I'll simply limit myself to highlights.) Although developed for commercial use, I believe Lee Sabini's handle designs are as good as they get. I also believe Lee's hand-tied knots are the best in the world. (Having some insight into what he goes through to create and fit his knots is quite something. Full disclosure for any who might not know: Lee and I have been partners these past three plus years. Even so, I like to believe I would draw the same conclusions if I was a customer.) Aside from that, Paladin's special run laser engraving is first-rate; Simpson's (although also not "artisan") for continuing to support hand turning; and Varlet, Declaration, and Black Eagle for venturing into tying their own knots.
• How many batches (or prototypes) do you make before the first production run (or piece)? It depends. Usually two or three (simply because I've gotten to the point where I'm able to visualize and critique a design mentally before committing it to paper or to a CAD program--Yes, even though I'm a hand turner, I occasionally use CAD to get dimensions close before turning the first prototype on the lathe). Even so, a couple designs (the CHS and Archduke II!) needed 10+ to get right! To share some further insight: in recent years, new designs have typically started with an idea--sometimes from a photo of a vintage brush (like the old, that is to say "out of production" Rubbersets, EverReady's, Simpson's, Kents, Rooney's, etc.) or even one or two contemporary designs that looked promising, but that could stand aesthetic or ergonomic improvement. (Going back to my first point and the "use your own products" question, I'm always looking for ways to improve my own work--e.g., tweaking proportions, altering the silhouette, etc.) All that said, I have some new designs running around in my head that, once thought through, should be quite nice.

I hope that answers at least some of your questions.

 

[Hone]

And at the end of 2018 I actually put a stainless steel razor into production, after many 100's of samples and meetings with multiple different factories and places to narrow down where to have it made. Unfortunately the manufacturer I ended up working with struggled with the form of the razor in this material. Stainless is a tough cookie. They weren't able to consistently deliver the parts to match the quality report or tolerances for the part specs, Despite the planning and testing and working with them. And almost a year after paying for the production run (in full) I had make the tough decision that they were not going to deliver, and had to stop the project and discuss the next steps with them which is still ongoing.

I can now expand on this post as I now have more information. This week I learned that the manufacturer I was working with in the UK went into liquidation. As it stands I have lost all the investment I have made with them in terms of developing the product and finishing, fixtures, and production costs paid to this point.

Of course I will have to wait to see what the final outcome is based on what other creditors there are etc. But I do not have my hopes up once the tax office have their slice. Suffice to say it is quite a significant amount for a small business to loose with no value returned. I have been preparing for this eventuality for the last few months reading the situation, so I think I have it covered just and I have a way forward. It's a shame to see a manufacturer close, and I hope they can get back on their feet. But it's now going to be a struggle to find a new manufacturer, bring them up to speed and build up my production costs again.

 

[Rowlers]

So I guess I can now expand on this post now I have more information. This week I learned that the manufacturer I was working with in the UK went into liquidation. As it stands I have lost all the investment I have made with them in terms of developing the product and finishing, fixtures, and production costs paid to this point.

Of course I will have to wait to see what the final outcome is based on what other creditors there are etc. But I do not have my hopes up once the tax office have their slice. Suffice to say it is quite a significant amount for a small business to loose with no value returned. I have been preparing for this eventuality for the last few months reading the situation, so I think I have it covered just and I have a way forward. It's a shame to see a manufacturer close, and I hope they can get back on their feet. But it's now going to be a struggle to find a new manufacturer, bring them up to speed and build up my production costs again.

Sad ending for both of you. I do hope you don't give up and that you can find a new manufacturer and bring it to fruition...

 

[Hone]

I do hope you don't give up and that you can find a new manufacturer and bring it to fruition...

Thanks Lee. No worries I am not going anywhere, and neither is Hone

It isn't a good situation, and although it has an impact, it's also an "external problem" if that makes sense. I have been very careful to make sure that I have looked at how I could have mitigated this, and maybe what extra checks I should carry out in the future. But Hone is healthy and has stock, and I have new product ideas. Maybe making them real will be a little tougher, but not impossible.

 

[Deleted member 30]

A question for our artisan soap makers, what is your favourite classic/vintage shaving soap?

As it happens, I do have a bit of a vintage soap stick fetish. It's a tough call, but Palmolive closely followed by Imperial Leather would be my choice. The vintage Imperial Leather scent has faded badly but I can imagine that with the scent intact it would edge in front of Palmolive.

I have not long finished a Imperial Leather stick and now on the Levers Easy Shaving Stick. The Levers is an acceptable shave but again the scent has faded and smells like old vegetable oil. I do have another stick of this so am happy to use it. The others I only have one stick of and will not use them.

The small Cooks Solace soap dates to around 1910. This company, Edward Cook and Co. Ltd has a nice history. Established in Norwich before the beginning of the eighteenth century by a Mr. Cook. Joined in partnership by a Mr. Brickwood. Business moved to Bankside, London, in 1815. Lever Brothers acquired Edward Cook & Company Limited in 1910. The company closed between 1946-1951

A more detailed account of the business can be found here at Unilevers Archives: http://unilever-archives.com/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=GB1752.LBL/EC

 

[Deleted member 30]

 

[Hone]

@Fox that Pears soap tin is rather beautiful. That is real belief in your brand to stay that simple! How is their modern stuff so... average. They have a great back catalogue to pull on...

 

[Hone]

So, a little inspired by this thread, I made a new section on my site, called Hone Stories. I've wanted to maybe make something like this for a while. Because it gives me somewhere to record my own thinking too. But mainly it is a space to share more insights behind the scenes for those that are interested.

The first story is on packaging and I would love to hear what people think and what other stories they might be interested in reading? My intent is to write a new story every 2 months... maybe more. I have a few already started a couple more but will wait to hear what the feedback is like. If it is ok, I might see if I can duplicate the stories here if that would be allowed?

here is the link... hope someone finds it interesting.
www.hone-shaving.com/stories

 

[Nishy]

So, a little inspired by this thread, I made a new section on my site, called Hone Stories. I've wanted to maybe make something like this for a while. Because it gives me somewhere to record my own thinking too. But mainly it is a space to share more insights behind the scenes for those that are interested.

The first story is on packaging and I would love to hear what people think and what other stories they might be interested in reading? My intent is to write a new story every 2 months... maybe more. I have a few already started a couple more but will wait to hear what the feedback is like. If it is ok, I might see if I can duplicate the stories here if that would be allowed?

here is the link... hope someone finds it interesting.
www.hone-shaving.com/stories

Yes definitely allowed and would be interesting to read

 

[Hone]

Yes definitely allowed and would be interesting to read

OK, I'll put it into a post format... It is a little long so will be interested how it goes down on the forum. I would love to hear similar things from the other artisans too!

 

[phoenixandbeau]

Sorry folks, I don't get much time to keep up with the various forums on the interweb, but to add my penneth worth..

A question for our artisan soap makers, what is your favourite classic/vintage shaving soap?

Easy. Tabac!

I'd like to ask all our Artisans, What led you into making Shaving items?

Curiosity and wanting to see if I could do a better job. My first soap was an attempt at trying to make my own version of MdC. It failed spectacularly and was so drying my face felt as though it was going to crack .

Do you use your own products? If you do, do you use your own products exclusively?

Yep, 100% although not exclusively. I like to intermittently sample what our competitors are doing to see if there's anything we can learn from them and so I've dabbled with the likes of B&M, Declaration, etc.

Which other artisans’ products do you rate highly?

For being consistently excellent I've always had a soft spot for Barrister & Mann.

My 2 questions
- how or why did you start into making shaving items
- how many batches or protypes were made before a final first product

As above, curiosity and wanting to see if I could do a better job of what was out there. Regarding how many versions it took me to get to the final (original) tallow formula, oh, too many to recount and almost a years worth of work.

Cheers,

Kerry.

 

[Deleted member 1881]

Sorry folks, I don't get much time to keep up with the various forums on the interweb, but to add my penneth worth..

Easy. Tabac!
Curiosity and wanting to see if I could do a better job. My first soap was an attempt at trying to make my own version of MdC. It failed spectacularly and was so drying my face felt as though it was going to crack .
Yep, 100% although not exclusively. I like to intermittently sample what our competitors are doing to see if there's anything we can learn from them and so I've dabbled with the likes of B&M, Declaration, etc.
For being consistently excellent I've always had a soft spot for Barrister & Mann.
As above, curiosity and wanting to see if I could do a better job of what was out there. Regarding how many versions it took me to get to the final (original) tallow formula, oh, too many to recount and almost a years worth of work.

Cheers,

Kerry.

Honesty is a strong attribute of you Kerry and I appreciate that. You don't have a problem to mention other artisans brands and with plenty of modesty you say that you may learn from them.

You know what? Reading the ingredients of your new formula, and having tried the previous one, I am sure you have nothing less than Barrister & Mann's Excelsior, (this is anyway a tricky to lather formula, with the addition of Xanthan Gum), so I spy that your soap must be close to Siero and Sego. I will tell you soon...