Crabtree & Evelyn "Sweet Almond Oil" Shaving Soap. Vintage or...?

[Shaun2]

I have two C&E Sweet Almond Oil pucks on their way to me, bought at a crazily low price including shipping of $23AUD for both ($15US or £12).

Despite my researches, I can find no conclusive information regarding what constitutes the "original" or "vintage" formulation. Lots of opinions, though.

I had read that the "vintage" ingredients lists starts with "Sodium Palmate" and not "Potassium Palmate", however, in the two pucks (boxes pictured below) both start with "Sodium Palmate". Are they both vintage? Or only one? Or neither?? Has anyone ever seen the white box version?

The yellow box has a date marked 1986, but what does this actually mean? I have seen this date on similar boxes, but sometimes containing a puck of 1.8oz. Mine (and many others seen online) state 1.7oz.

The white box has no date listed.

Are there any experts here? I admit to being very confused about these details. I'm sure I'll love using them, but it would still be great to know.

Pictures, top, back and sides of both:

 

[pjgh]

Hi! From what I can tell, both of these are vintage ... and by quite some margin. These appear to predate the "potassium vs sodium" debate which came into vogue around 2011 with the Soapworks fiasco.

Here's what I know (taken from period posts and using archive.org to look back at known date websites and photographs) ...

Vintage - Dates unknown but certainly prior to the known pre-2011 Standard Company formulation
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Water (Aqua), Glycerine, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Stearic Acid, Fragrance (Parfum), Isoproyl Myristate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, BHT, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Titanium Dioxide (CI 77891), D&C Yellow No.10 (CI 47005), Iron Oxides (CI 77491, CI 77492 & CI77499)

Standard Company formulation (pre-2011)
Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Stearate, Glycerin, Fragrance (Parfum), Palm Kernel Acid, Isopropyl Myristate, Tocopheryl Acetate, BHT, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Chloride, Limonene, Linalool, Amyl Cinnamal, Coumarin, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

Soapworks formulation (post-2011) and the reason of the "potassium vs sodium" advice ... despite older formulations also being sodium-first
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Fragrance (Parfum), Bisabolol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Limonene, Linalool, Amyl Cinnamal, Coumarin, Hydroxyisohexyl-3-Cyclohexene Carboxaldehyde, Hydroxycitronellal, Eugenol, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

Yours, as you can see are the older vintage ... and matches a vintage bowl of Mysore Sandalwood that I have.

I think the fact that both imperial and the new standard metric are both present on the box puts these somewhere in the 1980s or early 1990s at the latest. Culmak (as a comparison) stated both on their known 1970s and 1980s bowls and by the 1980s were expressing the weight only in metric. Other companies continued the tradition much later.

You've also got a 1986 date on the side of one of the boxes and the fact that they're the same formulation puts them both in the same epoch. I'd wager that the one with the date is the older one and the other is a slightly newer revision, perhaps into the (early) 1990s.

 

[pjgh]

... another thought is that they were marketed at the same time or overlapping, perhaps, for different reasons. The olde worlde looking one is a refill for the ceramic scuttles, while the other modern modern looking design is a refill for the shaving bowl.

 

[Shaun2]

This is a wonderful analysis, my friend! The other thing I was thinking regarding the Oz/metric is that the USA (for one) still uses ounces as a measure of many items, including shaving soap, and C&E was marketing and selling world-wide (UK, USA, France, Australia, etc). Looks to conatin mostly safe ingredients, too, save perhaps for the butylphenyl and BHT, but no dramas unless you use these ALL the time and perhaps not even then.

I was taught imperial, and although I use metric every day, I can't really visualise a person's height in cm. I can 'see' a height of 5ft 3inches, for example (not me: I am 6ft) but I am baffled by 160cm. Weight I have no trouble with, and can use either form of measurement. Same as pre-decimal currency, etc.

Yours is the only clear explanation I have seen anywhere! I am indebted to you, and I think many others will now be, too. Thank you.

 

[pjgh]

My pleasure! I've been trying to put together a coherent map of the British Cartel (as I've come to call them - you know, C&E, Pen's, GFT, T&H, TOBS, etc) tracking what was good, bad and indifferent through the years. I've collated quite a catalogue of formulations with confirmed dates from posts (and the Internet Archive) ... it's still a work in progress, but I'm seeing some very clear connections between certain houses and those connections do change over time.

Anyway, that's an aside.

Recently, I bought a vintage scuttle and a refill of the Almond Oil soap, but the damn seller just didn't send it. I got my money back, but I would have rather had the soap.

 

[Shaun2]

Didn't send it? I'd be more than vexed had that happened to me! That's lousy.

 

[pjgh]

Yep! Fuming!