Climate Change......

Wayne

Forum Sod
Civilizations over the past 6,000 years have unfailingly squandered their futures through acts of colossal stupidity and hubris. We are probably not an exception. The worse it gets, the more the people will lie to themselves and the more they will want to be lied to. For many reality is often too painful to confront; they would rather retreat into what anthropologists call “crisis cults,” which promise the return of a lost world through magical beliefs.

“The most significant characteristic of modern civilization is the sacrifice of the future for the present,” philosopher and psychologist William James wrote. You can either believe the scientific consensus or believe dissenting scientists. I hope the few in the latter category are correct but I suspect those that predict that cities across the globe, including London, Shanghai, Rio de Janeiro, Mumbai, Lagos, Copenhagen, New Orleans, San Francisco, Savannah, Ga., and New York, will become modern-day versions of Atlantis, along with countries such as Bangladesh and the Marshall Islands and large parts of New Zealand and Australia, are correct, but I would be very happy if this was wrong. There are 90 coastal cities in the U.S. that endure chronic flooding, a number that is expected to double in the next two decades. It is difficult to see how many National economies will not go into tailspins as wider and wider parts of the globe suffer catastrophic systems breakdown. Of course Covid19 may itself cause economic tailspins, at least in the west or maybe even positive change, who knows, but most of the research I have scanned is far from rosy and if anything we are not getting a candid picture of what is coming down the track!.
What do we want? Ban the Arrow!! When do we want it? Now.
 

TobyC

Patriot
Old Al Gore may have been off in the timing of his predictions but not that it will happen.


Bob
The natural warming will happen with or without humans, along with the natural cooling of the Earth. Political activists are exploiting this to their advantage.
 

Missoni

Fellow Traveller
What do we want? Ban the Arrow!! When do we want it? Now.
I thought you were going to give this thread "a wide berth...I will pass...wouldn't enjoy my views". Not like you to make knocking comments only; why not express your view?' you view maybe correct! :) and I am sure others will agree with your view. I hope the scientists who forewarn a coming climate catastrophe are wrong and those that assert that they are wrong are right!
 

TobyC

Patriot
Civilizations over the past 6,000 years have unfailingly squandered their futures through acts of colossal stupidity and hubris. We are probably not an exception. The worse it gets, the more the people will lie to themselves and the more they will want to be lied to. For many reality is often too painful to confront; they would rather retreat into what anthropologists call “crisis cults,” which promise the return of a lost world through magical beliefs.

“The most significant characteristic of modern civilization is the sacrifice of the future for the present,” philosopher and psychologist William James wrote. You can either believe the scientific consensus or believe dissenting scientists. I hope the few in the latter category are correct but I suspect those that predict that cities across the globe, including London, Shanghai, Rio de Janeiro, Mumbai, Lagos, Copenhagen, New Orleans, San Francisco, Savannah, Ga., and New York, will become modern-day versions of Atlantis, along with countries such as Bangladesh and the Marshall Islands and large parts of New Zealand and Australia, are correct, but I would be very happy if this was wrong. There are 90 coastal cities in the U.S. that endure chronic flooding, a number that is expected to double in the next two decades. It is difficult to see how many National economies will not go into tailspins as wider and wider parts of the globe suffer catastrophic systems breakdown. Of course Covid19 may itself cause economic tailspins, at least in the west or maybe even positive change, who knows, but most of the research I have scanned is far from rosy and if anything we are not getting a candid picture of what is coming down the track!.
If the sea rises at the current predicted rate, 20 years will give you 2.5 inches, if Atlantis was covered by only 2.5 inches of water I think we would have found it.
 

Wayne

Forum Sod
I thought you were going to give this thread "a wide berth...I will pass...wouldn't enjoy my views". Not like you to make knocking comments only; why not express your view?' you view maybe correct! :) and I am sure others will agree with your view. I hope the scientists who forewarn a coming climate catastrophe are wrong and those that assert that they are wrong are right!
I think we all hope that. I actually was going to pass but sometimes the ridiculousness of it all just gets to me. We are still in our infancy when it comes to weather and climate. We have had records for how long? 1910 they began in the U.K. Until then we knew nothing of what happened before apart from Old Farmer McDonald saying his Cows were laid down a week early so it's going to be a bad winter. Tell me exactly how the Dinosaurs became extinct? No one knows, yeah they make stuff up of course, ice ages, meteor strikes, it may have been a Corona virus. I knock posts for a reason sometimes.
Look I know some people are passionate but what I do not understand is that scientific theories are just that theories. Get enough people to believe you and it becomes reality to some, we cannot even cure a common cold yet never mind even begin to explain why polar ice caps are melting. We were not around the last time they melted, neither were the scientists that spout doom and gloom. I've seen mild winters and I've seen harsh Winters, I've seen floods and stand pipes. It's called nature. It's fluid, it changes and we do not know what has happened on this planet before all these theories became gospel. We aren't as clever as we think we are.
 

Missoni

Fellow Traveller
If the sea rises at the current predicted rate, 20 years will give you 2.5 inches, if Atlantis was covered by only 2.5 inches of water I think we would have found it.
It depends on what predictions or peer reviewed research you are persuaded by; who ever you are persuaded by Toby maybe correct. I am sure we could swap stats to support different positions but I am guessing we are both sure what side of the debate we are on. I remain open to persuasion that climate change is not going to happen but I am still looking to be persuaded :)
 

les24preludes

Forum GOD!
Civilizations over the past 6,000 years have unfailingly squandered their futures through acts of colossal stupidity and hubris. We are probably not an exception. The worse it gets, the more the people will lie to themselves and the more they will want to be lied to. For many reality is often too painful to confront; they would rather retreat into what anthropologists call “crisis cults,” which promise the return of a lost world through magical beliefs.

“The most significant characteristic of modern civilization is the sacrifice of the future for the present,” philosopher and psychologist William James wrote. You can either believe the scientific consensus or believe dissenting scientists. I hope the few in the latter category are correct but I suspect those that predict that cities across the globe, including London, Shanghai, Rio de Janeiro, Mumbai, Lagos, Copenhagen, New Orleans, San Francisco, Savannah, Ga., and New York, will become modern-day versions of Atlantis, along with countries such as Bangladesh and the Marshall Islands and large parts of New Zealand and Australia, are correct, but I would be very happy if this was wrong. There are 90 coastal cities in the U.S. that endure chronic flooding, a number that is expected to double in the next two decades. It is difficult to see how many National economies will not go into tailspins as wider and wider parts of the globe suffer catastrophic systems breakdown. Of course Covid19 may itself cause economic tailspins, at least in the west or maybe even positive change, who knows, but most of the research I have scanned is far from rosy and if anything we are not getting a candid picture of what is coming down the track!.
Thank you so much for that. You understand. That's a start, at least.
 

Missoni

Fellow Traveller
I think we all hope that. I actually was going to pass but sometimes the ridiculousness of it all just gets to me. We are still in our infancy when it comes to weather and climate. We have had records for how long? 1910 they began in the U.K. Until then we knew nothing of what happened before apart from Old Farmer McDonald saying his Cows were laid down a week early so it's going to be a bad winter. Tell me exactly how the Dinosaurs became extinct? No one knows, yeah they make stuff up of course, ice ages, meteor strikes, it may have been a Corona virus. I knock posts for a reason sometimes.
Look I know some people are passionate but what I do not understand is that scientific theories are just that theories. Get enough people to believe you and it becomes reality to some, we cannot even cure a common cold yet never mind even begin to explain why polar ice caps are melting. We were not around the last time they melted, neither were the scientists that spout doom and gloom. I've seen mild winters and I've seen harsh Winters, I've seen floods and stand pipes. It's called nature. It's fluid, it changes and we do not know what has happened on this planet before all these theories became gospel. We aren't as clever as we think we are.
I agree that there is uncertainty and probably because of my nature, suspect we have passed a tipping point anyway. But I get that there are also valid views that do question the science. We are laymen (unless you are a climatologist on the side) and what we receive from the media is so often only sound bites and talking heads but some of the research and views I do stress some is scary stuff. I am also pulled by the view that we (humanity) will have to adapt and adaptation is probably our best strategy if the predictions are correct. That will mean moving away from areas that flood or are too dry, but for a lot of people I guess with all the resulting stress on conflict, politics and borders. I suppose being an Island nation, that this may insulate us (excuse the pun) better than many other continental countries.
 

les24preludes

Forum GOD!
We are still at the stage where only 53% of the population in the UK would pay more for ecologically sourced food. In France, Italy and Germany the figures are between 60% and 70%. Don't hold your breath for any real progress in public attitudes in this country after Brexit. All the heavy lifting on climate change is being done in the EU. Don't even mention the rest of the world.
 

R181

Grumpy old man
The natural warming will happen with or without humans, along with the natural cooling of the Earth. Political activists are exploiting this to their advantage.
In answer to that see my post #15 on pg 1 of this thread. Nobody in their right mind would deny there is a natural cycle to the earth's warming and cooling. Plenty would ignore totally man's drastically increasing effect on those cycles since the industrial revolution. We may have been headed to a new ice age but man sure has increased the change of pace to that end. Denying one part of an equation, as you have just done, does not make that part any less real or valid.

Bob
 

Missoni

Fellow Traveller
We are still at the stage where only 53% of the population in the UK would pay more for ecologically sourced food. In France, Italy and Germany the figures are between 60% and 70%. Don't hold your breath for any real progress in public attitudes in this country after Brexit. All the heavy lifting on climate change is being done in the EU. Don't even mention the rest of the world.
I would say that individual actions will have only a minimum impact; it requires policy change that would mean a total change to our way of living if we are going to make a difference. I am not confident that will happen so adaptation is all that is left...
 

Wayne

Forum Sod
My original answer to your post, Ban the Arrow, was used to show that unfortunately nothing Human beings have ever invented has ever been uninvented, We have tried to uninvent things for Thousands of years. It wasn't an attack upon you personally. Social media is too tribal these days you are either in one camp or the other. No middle ground is allowed. We think we are so clever don't we, in the reality of things most of us couldn't last a fortnight lost in the woods without starving to death. That includes Chris Whitty and the WHO. All our weapons of death are still in use today, from Palestinians hurling stones from slings at Jewish Soldiers to Young thugs in London stabbing their rivals with knives to Nuclear War heads. All our Inventions are still here.
We will never find the answer to a polution free World. The reason being we Only have the materials that are on this planet. Everything we have comes from the Earth.
Plastic is fantastic as a material but it also is a scourge due to the fact it is so fantastic.
Fossil fuels are fantastic but are finite, They will run out eventually or maybe not, who knows how much Oil, Coal, etc there is? No one.
The same with climate for every Scientist that says one thing there is another that says the opposite, they cannot agree on anything so the loudest voices are the ones we listen to. The loudest voices usually have the largest amount of money behind them. Why?
What have they to gain, who is pulling their strings and for what purpose?
How can a 16 yr old from Sweden be a millionaire for saying the World will end unless we listen to her, Someone is behind her, Who and Why?
These are the questions I want answering. Who is out to make money from Climate change agendas? Because you can bet your bottom Dollar money is behind this. It always is.
 
Last edited:

Wayne

Forum Sod
.now the most important identifier is if you voted leave or remain!
No it isn't. Brexit is not a World issue, We are a tiny island compared to the Worlds landmass. It is nothing more than a violence free war. Years ago it would have been sorted out on the battle field.
These days it becomes a mere war of words and insults. Which is why almost 5 years on it is still no nearer to conclusion.
 

Missoni

Fellow Traveller
No it isn't. Brexit is not a World issue, We are a tiny island compared to the Worlds landmass. It is nothing more than a violence free war. Years ago it would have been sorted out on the battle field.
These days it becomes a mere war of words and insults. Which is why almost 5 years on it is still no nearer to conclusion.

...with COVID and the upcoming elections in the US, I agree it is small beer...but is is still an issue for us in the UK but I am guessing more and more people are more concerned about getting through the pandemic unscathed...
 

les24preludes

Forum GOD!
...with COVID and the upcoming elections in the US, I agree it is small beer...but is is still an issue for us in the UK but I am guessing more and more people are more concerned about getting through the pandemic unscathed...
People want to go back to the lives they are used to. But that era is coming to an end in the coming decades. No wonder people are starting to work out exactly what the "new normal" is going to be. It's not going to be the same as any "old normal" and to imagine it is, is magical thinking alas. Humans have never been good at conceptualising the future. It's not something that animals have ever done much of and evolution hasn't caught up with our need for it.
 
Top