Pass Around Rocnel SE-G (GEM/FHS blade) razor - Finished

SweeneyTodd

Forum GOD!
Andreas, I have just received my Rocnel, this morning, and although I haven't shaved with it yet, I have loaded one of the 10 supplied blades and found it to be a doddle.
This may sound a stupid question, but when loading and removing the blade, you have unscrewed the set screw enough so that the head is below the opening in the lower plate?
This is interesting, because I too have had a couple of days use with my new Rocnel, and have encountered the blade loading problems described. I'm also using a Personna blade from a 100 box bought from Connaught in 2014, which has been loaded, and used twice. Whilst not impossible to load, it needed some persuasion, and likewise for removal, and there was no resemblance to the slack to-and-fro in the videos. That surprised me.
I've just now tried one of the 10 blades supplied, and the first time in, it was as loose as the videos show. But here's where it gets interesting.
If I insert the new blade with the "Gem" lettering facing forward, it's slack. If I then take it out, and try to put it in with the "Stainless" legend to front, it sticks. As advised, I'm putting the blade in at the lefthand side looking at the front of the razor.
I then repeat this load sequence using the already-used and older Gem blade, and although it's not quite as slack loading on the "Gem" side, it slides fairly easily. Turn it round, and the blighter sticks.
I can't believe that, given the precision with which this razor is machined, this is an aberration in mine alone.
I also notice that on the old blade, the two end punches to hold the spine are on the "Gem" side, but on the "Stainless" in the new blade. That would seem to rule out the punching as a cause.
I've measured the two blades with my digital vernier, in two places. First, spine vertically down above centre slot, and blade horizontally at the middle of the lefthand side slot when "Gem" faces towards me. They come out as:-
Old blade - spine 0.94mm, blade thickness 0.20mm
New blade - spine 0.95mm, blade thickness 0.21mm
i.e. the same, near enough.
I started this rather early this morning, so the little grey cells aren't up to speed as far as working out why this should be. Any answers?
 

Optometrist

Forum GOD!
This is interesting, because I too have had a couple of days use with my new Rocnel, and have encountered the blade loading problems described. I'm also using a Personna blade from a 100 box bought from Connaught in 2014, which has been loaded, and used twice. Whilst not impossible to load, it needed some persuasion, and likewise for removal, and there was no resemblance to the slack to-and-fro in the videos. That surprised me.
I've just now tried one of the 10 blades supplied, and the first time in, it was as loose as the videos show. But here's where it gets interesting.
If I insert the new blade with the "Gem" lettering facing forward, it's slack. If I then take it out, and try to put it in with the "Stainless" legend to front, it sticks. As advised, I'm putting the blade in at the lefthand side looking at the front of the razor.
I then repeat this load sequence using the already-used and older Gem blade, and although it's not quite as slack loading on the "Gem" side, it slides fairly easily. Turn it round, and the blighter sticks.
I can't believe that, given the precision with which this razor is machined, this is an aberration in mine alone.
I also notice that on the old blade, the two end punches to hold the spine are on the "Gem" side, but on the "Stainless" in the new blade. That would seem to rule out the punching as a cause.
I've measured the two blades with my digital vernier, in two places. First, spine vertically down above centre slot, and blade horizontally at the middle of the lefthand side slot when "Gem" faces towards me. They come out as:-
Old blade - spine 0.94mm, blade thickness 0.20mm
New blade - spine 0.95mm, blade thickness 0.21mm
i.e. the same, near enough.
I started this rather early this morning, so the little grey cells aren't up to speed as far as working out why this should be. Any answers?
First shave in an hour or so, but when I loaded the blade without difficulty, yesterday, I inserted with the GEM side upwards, with the top of the head towards me. I've just removed the blade and flipped it over, to insert with the STAINLESS side upwards. Again, I had no difficulty. The blade moves fairly freely from side to side within the head and irrespective of which side up the blade is.
 

SweeneyTodd

Forum GOD!
First shave in an hour or so, but when I loaded the blade without difficulty, yesterday, I inserted with the GEM side upwards, with the top of the head towards me. I've just removed the blade and flipped it over, to insert with the STAINLESS side upwards. Again, I had no difficulty. The blade moves fairly freely from side to side within the head and irrespective of which side up the blade is.
Now I'm even more mystified. I've just tried this all over again, and the result is the same as before. I've also tried it with the grub screw out, and various positions up to the point when it stops against the blade, and no change there. In fact, I think I've covered most permutations.
What I do notice with the "old" blade is that when I try inserting it on the "Stainless" side, the blade enters the left hand slot, and tends to wander obliquely, with the (face on) right-hand bottom blade corner angling towards the teeth. Then it stops, and no amount of pushing will make it go further. That happens at the point when the centre slot is about to enter the head. The "new" one will enter, stay level, but stops with about 7mm of blade protruding on the l/h entry side i.e. it will go further in and then stop. Neither blade will go anywhere if inserted "Stainless" side from the right-hand side.
Putting either in with the "Gem" side facing, and both blades will enter freely from left and right-hand sides, and move equally freely back and forth as you describe.
This would suggest that your razor is slightly different to mine, which I still find hard to believe. I guess that a much larger sample of new razors and user experiences will be needed to get further with this conundrum.
Setting aside all this palaver, I'll be interested to hear what you think of its shaving qualities. I'm impressed with mine.
 

sɐǝɹpu∀

riverrun
The spines of GEM blades are just a piece of sheet metal crimped around a precision blade.
Have a look at this close-up image...


Don't expect them to have uniform thickness or be the same from blade to blade. Rather than blame minute variations in the Rocnel razor, just have a look at how bumpy the the blades are. A fact already known to our forefathers:
Julius Bueno de Mesquita said:
...assuring a positive securing and seating of the razor blade, as hereinafter explained, regardless of possible variations in the thicknesses of the blades or irregularities which may unintentionally arise in the manufacture or assembly of the parts of the general frame.
(Patent ↪US1,488,907.)
 

SweeneyTodd

Forum GOD!
The spines of GEM blades are just a piece of sheet metal crimped around a precision blade.
Have a look at this close-up image...


Don't expect them to have uniform thickness or be the same from blade to blade. Rather than blame minute variations in the Rocnel razor, just have a look at how bumpy the the blades are. A fact already known to our forefathers:
Looking at the two blades I've been using under magnification, it becomes evident that whilst each is slightly different in the spine to the other, the ends on the same blade also vary slightly. This is even clearer using a strong backlight to sight through the razor head with the blades in different positions, and may explain why the entry end on the "Gem" face works perfectly, and the other doesn't.
I would be very surprised if there were variations, even minor, in manufacturing tolerances. I have every razor produced by Rocnel to date, and, whether the designs and concepts appeal to all (the SE-P being perhaps the most egregious example), the precision of each is beyond doubt.
As I have other old Gem-type razors, my empirical approach will be to see if a blade will load readily one way or another. If it won't, then it can go back into waiting for future use in one of those.
Anyway, I find it shaves well, which is what I most ask and hope for from any razor.
 

Optometrist

Forum GOD!
I have no previous experience with GEM blades, so unsure as to n/o shaves per blade compared to a regular SE or DE blade.
I may change earlier than necessary, just to see if another blade is problem-free, or if, indeed, there is some variation, here.

BTW, the shave went brilliantly. I've posted more in the Rocnel thread in the SE razor section.
 

sɐǝɹpu∀

riverrun
Day 6 - Shave 5
  • Calani Iberische Sonne soap
  • Mühle 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • GEM blade (3.5)
  • Alum block
  • Cella Colonia Classica
  • 4711 Portugal EdC

The plan:

Same as yesterday: Use the same GEM blade in the Rocnel and 1912 on alternating passes.

The reality:

The blade that went into Rocnel so smoothly yesterday had been used last week inside a 1912 in a shave-off with a PAL carbon blade in another 1912. It did 5 half shaves last week, so it is now on shave 3.5.
The first pass went really well. The blade was again "assertive" rather than "aggressive". It went so well indeed that my plan went straight out of the window and I decided to do the entire shave with the Rocnel.
Read my first shave report for details. It was another enjoyable and very close shave. Not the slightest nick this time. My 1912 probably gives a smoother shave, but I'm not sure if it can compete on closeness. Excellent.
I have noticed though, that the Rocnel is very "front-heavy". If I hold the razor in my hand with the blade edge pointing upwards, the head has a tendency to roll the razor until the front of the head points downwards. My 1912 doesn't show that behaviour, certainly not when attached to the long stainless steel handle. It's not a big issue, but the balance of the Rocnel is not perfect.
Other than that, I was very pleased with today's shave. I will refrain from shaving with the Rocnel if the blade shows any sign of struggle to go in. I think that's the secret with the Rocnel.
I'll see if one of my Treet carbon blades fits nicely and might try that next or I'll have another shave with the blade currently in the Rocnel. I'll find out tomorrow.
To be continued…
 

sɐǝɹpu∀

riverrun
Day 7 - Shave #6
  • Speick Men shaving cream
  • Mühle 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • GEM blade (4.5)
  • Alum block
  • Speick Men ASL
  • Speick Men EdT
Not much to report. Same blade as yesterday. Just as good.
The blade is far from finished, but I'll try a Treet carbon blade tomorrow - putting it into the Rocnel worked like a treet :wink:
To be continued…
 

sɐǝɹpu∀

riverrun
Day 8 - Shave #7
  • Faena Mastic soap
  • Mühle 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • Treet carbon blade (1)
  • Alum block
  • Tüff Sensitiv ASL
  • Faena Mastic ASL
My first shave with a Treet carbon steel SE blade, so this a report on both - the razor and the blade. The blade went into the Rocnel SE-G head without a hitch, but I found out later that I was lucky. It doesn't go in easily from the other side of the head (the head is asymmetrical I'm told) and it went in less smooth from the "correct" side with the spine the other way up.
It's a summery day today, so I'll use Faena Mastic shaving soap - a Greek island holiday in a tub. Wonderful stuff.
I won't bore with details, but this was an amazing shave. I could feel the blade slice through stubble as if it were butter - only louder. The Treet blade was both fiercely sharp and wonderfully smooth. No nicks, just relentless whacking of whiskers. I so need to try this blade in a 1912. Four passes later I'm smooth as can be.
The next surprise was the alum block. It had been on the window sill in the sun all morning and it was hot. This is so weird and it took me a few seconds to figure out what was going on. There was hardly any sting from the alum.
The plan was to use Faena Mastic ASL to go with the soap. It claims to contain alcohol, but that is negligible. I wanted to know what a proper alcoholic ASL would have to say, so I picked Tüff Sensitiv (green), as it is pretty much unscented and wouldn't interfere with the mastic afterwards. Again, I was surprised by the lack of sting.
To conclude - this razor gives wonderful shaves. I'm pretty impressed. The trick is to avoid blades that don't go in smoothly. Insert them from the "correct" side and try to flip them over if they don't fit at first. Every time I did that I had a marvellous shave.
The Treet blade impressed me as well. The problem is that it is made from carbon steel and will rust if left wet in the razor. Drying the blade is a matter of seconds in a 1912, but a bit of a procedure with the Rocnel. Observation: the set screw is too long, but it won't disappear down the handle, even if you try.
I could try a Feather blade in the Rocnel, but I think the idea is misguided and I won't.
There will be another shave with the Treet tomorrow, then I will have to let go... @Looney12345, please PM me your address.
To be continued…
 
Last edited:

dadant

Forum GOD!
Can you take me off the lending list please, I was initially keen to try a modern SE razor that takes GEM's but I know this one isn't going to be for me.

Thanks
 

sɐǝɹpu∀

riverrun
Can you take me off the lending list please, I was initially keen to try a modern SE razor that takes GEM's but I know this one isn't going to be for me.

Thanks
Certainly - although it's quite good actually... :D
  1. sɐǝɹpu∀ / riverrun (ATG/TSR)
  2. Looney12345 (ATG/TSR)
  3. Mikey J (ATG)
  4. Mr_Smartepants (ATG/TSR)
  5. Mr Bigmem (ATG/TSR)
  6. p.b (ATG/TSR)
  7. Barry Giddens (TSR)
  8. Blademonkey (TSR)
  9. Luckypip (TSR)
  10. MPH (ATG/TSR)
  11. Bizzyberry (ATG/TSR)
  12. AndyMc133 (TSR)
  13. Rowlers (ATG/TSR)
  14. The Geordie Shaver (TSR)
  15. Glenn_Lee (TSR)
  16. Wayne (ATG)
  17. shevsky (TSR)
  18. You?
The list is open.
Legend: Waiting, Currently with, Completed
 

Looney12345

Forum GOD!
Day 8 - Shave #7
  • Faena Mastic soap
  • Mühle 25mm synthetic brush
  • Rocnel SE-G
  • Treet carbon blade (1)
  • Alum block
  • Tüff Sensitiv ASL
  • Faena Mastic ASL
My first shave with a Treet carbon steel SE blade, so this a report on both - the razor and the blade. The blade went into the Rocnel SE-G head without a hitch, but I found out later that I was lucky. It doesn't go in easily from the other side of the head (the head is asymmetrical I'm told) and it went in less smooth from the "correct" side with the spine the other way up.
It's a summery day today, so I'll use Faena Mastic shaving soap - a Greek island holiday in a tub. Wonderful stuff.
I won't bore with details, but this was an amazing shave. I could feel the blade slice through stubble as if it were butter - only louder. The Treet blade was both fiercely sharp and wonderfully smooth. No nicks, just relentless whacking of whiskers. I so need to try this blade in a 1912. Four passes later I'm smooth as can be.
The next surprise was the alum block. It had been on the window sill in the sun all morning and it was hot. This is so weird and it took me a few seconds to figure out what was going on. There was hardly any sting from the alum.
The plan was to use Faena Mastic ASL to go with the soap. It claims to contain alcohol, but that is negligible. I wanted to know what a proper alcoholic ASL would have to say, so I picked Tüff Sensitiv (green), as it is pretty much unscented and wouldn't interfere with the mastic afterwards. Again, I was surprised by the lack of sting.
To conclude - this razor gives wonderful shaves. I'm pretty impressed. The trick is to avoid blades that don't go in smoothly. Insert them from the "correct" side and try to flip them over if they don't fit at first. Every time I did that I had a marvellous shave.
The Treet blade impressed me as well. The problem is that it is made from carbon steel and will rust if left wet in the razor. Drying the blade is a matter of seconds in a 1912, but a bit of a procedure with the Rocnel. Observation: the set screw is too long, but it won't disappear down the handle, even if you try.
I could try a Feather blade in the Rocnel, but I think the idea is misguided and I won't.
There will be another shave with the Treet tomorrow, then I will have to let go... @Looney12345, please PM me your address.
To be continued…
PM sent
 
Top